tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post8309366728250183125..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: The Advantaged PlayerPhil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-4784136081754537832012-04-18T13:18:58.592-07:002012-04-18T13:18:58.592-07:00David:
Because you morally equate "beating t...David:<br /><br />Because you morally equate "beating the Casino out of other people's money" with "eating a banana," You have simply defined your position as ethically inept.<br /><br />Because you didn't actually answer my question, you define yourself as invincible to reason or other people's points of view -- that is, those things bounce off you rather than encounter you. I'm not so stupid as to put myself up against someone that invincible.<br /><br />Comments are therefore closed.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85685535353554802212012-04-18T13:15:39.645-07:002012-04-18T13:15:39.645-07:00Wow, am I glad I came back to check the wreckage h...Wow, am I glad I came back to check the wreckage here.<br /><br />Brad:<br /><br />Not only did I read it, I write it! yay me!FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-43695486340202749852012-04-18T08:02:15.871-07:002012-04-18T08:02:15.871-07:00M Scott,
I had the pleasure of having you stay wi...M Scott,<br /><br />I had the pleasure of having you stay with my wife and I in San Diego one time. I hope you and the family are well.<br /><br />At the time, you had mentioned to me your concerns with the issue of the job not "producing" anything, and struggling with it being considered "work".<br /><br />Are you actively pursuing convincing others that are interested in joining something like this or who are currently doing this type of "work" to not do so?mike thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04359415253405880675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-69464301565851049712012-04-10T22:02:41.276-07:002012-04-10T22:02:41.276-07:00yes, dressing up in all kinds of disguises and lyi...yes, dressing up in all kinds of disguises and lying is all part of "playing the game and winning."Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-15881443463490008852012-04-10T21:49:48.202-07:002012-04-10T21:49:48.202-07:00Or did you not read it Frank?Or did you not read it Frank?Brad Currahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15626466000073962918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-75745288275852890012012-04-09T11:21:33.346-07:002012-04-09T11:21:33.346-07:00Frank:
You said:
How does beating a Casino out ...Frank:<br /><br />You said: <br /><br />How does beating a Casino out of other people's money translate into your statement ["As Christians we celebrate the Gospel paradox of mercy that invites us to love an otherwise 'unlovable' neighbor."]? <br /><br />Being excellent at a game in such a way as to earn a living for you and your family translates to the Gospel in the same way that eating a banana or putting a roof on your house facilitates the Gospel.davdruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550282598931008541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-42263046969039591022012-04-07T23:27:52.305-07:002012-04-07T23:27:52.305-07:00Did read it. Terrible review. Not convinced the g...Did read it. Terrible review. Not convinced the guy saw the movie. ? Um.... what did you learn from the review?reviewersBrad Currahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15626466000073962918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-40027867246250927772012-04-07T23:21:15.637-07:002012-04-07T23:21:15.637-07:00This is not cheating cheaters. This is playing a ...This is not cheating cheaters. This is playing a game open to the public and winning. Nothing more.Brad Currahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15626466000073962918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-24704579989448345472012-04-06T04:27:01.857-07:002012-04-06T04:27:01.857-07:00Brad:
Too bad you didn't read this review. Y...Brad:<br /><br />Too bad you didn't read this review. You might have learned something.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-52652202922158592442012-04-05T21:59:44.739-07:002012-04-05T21:59:44.739-07:00Seems like the post by Centurion here is saying:...Seems like the post by Centurion here is saying: <br /><br />"This movie leaves tons of questions without answers, so I'm going to connect all the dots and assume that the whatever picture I come up with is what the answer that the director was trying to create. And, the way I like to connect dots is spiritual, so I must be right. Therefore, I'm certain that the director and the other guys in this doc are wrong and nonspiritual." (bible verse goes here)<br /><br />Sorry Centurion, that this film didn't do what you thought it was supposed to do for you, but some of your dots were way off to begin with.<br /><br />You, like your blog, and the film remind me that "...the world is an imperfect place. Screws fall out all of the time."Brad Currahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15626466000073962918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-77193267742908937562012-04-05T18:08:39.307-07:002012-04-05T18:08:39.307-07:00M. Scott Foster:
I appreciate that you came here ...M. Scott Foster:<br /><br />I appreciate that you came here and you've been a good sport.<br /><br />I understand that counting cards isn't technically cheating. But you and I both know that Blackjack is structured to favor the house. In fact, unless you use card counting stragegies or similarly related reshuffling strategies, the house is <i>always</i> favored to win even if you follow basic player strategy (following basic playing strategy dramatically lowers the casino's edge but doesn't eliminate it).<br /><br />And when the house finds out a rule can be exploited by very good players (i.e, card counters) they change the rules (for example, changing the payout for blackjack from 3:2 to 6:5 or even 1:1; adding more decks to the shoe; reshuffling early). And if changing the rules fails, they'll simply ask you to leave. <br /><br />I have some decent knowledge of the gambling industry and it's not an uncommon tale to hear of card counting crews being hassled legally and illegally by casino staff. As a member of a card counting crew you know this. In fact, that you used disguises is evidence of this knowledge. So you know full well that the casinos cheat people out of money using morally repugnant but perfectly legal means (in most cases). <br /><br />Now if you would, please read the entirety of Matthew 5. I'm sure you are familiar with it and we can see from this chapter that God's standards are higher than man's. No man in Jesus' time would say that merely looking at a woman with lust was adultery. No Man. And yet we have God telling us it is. So if you apply these standards to card counting (as a crew), the question is not whether you can convince me or Frank or Tom Chantry that it isn't cheating a cheater when you count cards (again as a crew) but can you stand before a just and Holy God and explain that to Him?<br /><br />So I don't really want to argue dictionary definitions or look at rule books. I just want to know if, according to <i>God's</i> standards, we can rightly say "this is <i>not</i> cheating cheaters."Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-80159783128781035192012-04-05T14:39:32.474-07:002012-04-05T14:39:32.474-07:00Hi All,
I'm the director of the film and I ap...Hi All,<br /><br />I'm the director of the film and I appreciate the discussion that is going on here. One of the main reasons I made the film was so people would be able to discuss it afterwards and come to their own conclusions. I appreciate all the time Frank has put into this as well.<br /><br />I'm not going to debate you on all the issues in the blog or the comments, but there is one main thing I'd like to clear up. The team wasn't playing blackjack as a ministry. They were doing it as a job. They started the team to make money and that was it. I just don't want people to get confused and think that the guys thought they were doing ministry by counting cards or doing something noble. They were punching the clock, earning a living and support their families. It was first and foremost a job.<br /><br />LanternBright,<br />In regards to your last post, the trailer takes some things out of context and purposely misleads a little to get people interested in the film. It's a preview. It's a 3 minute trailer and doesn't represent the views of the team very well. There is a lot more to the story and it's not really fair to use the trailer against them or to support your argument against David Drury. Just because there is nothing about the journey, the mystery of the gospel or wrestling with the truth in this 3 minute piece, doesn't mean it wasn't there. I think there's a lot of this in the film (but maybe not enough).<br /><br />Thanks again.Bryan Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570033122242040499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-823632716148394652012-04-05T13:22:25.975-07:002012-04-05T13:22:25.975-07:00David --
Super! I'm please you can admit you...David --<br /><br />Super! I'm please you can admit you came to this with your eyes open.<br /><br />Here's the crux of your response, such as it is:<br /><br /><b>"As Christians we celebrate the Gospel paradox of mercy that invites us to love an otherwise 'unlovable' neighbor."</b><br /><br />Let's lay aside, for a moment, whether or not this is actually any kind of representation of either the Bible or the ideas promoted by this movie. How does beating a Casino out of other people's money translate into your statement, above?FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-21654972150814398982012-04-05T11:44:21.172-07:002012-04-05T11:44:21.172-07:00davdrury,
you said:
"Living in the grey has...davdrury,<br /><br />you said:<br /><br />"Living in the grey has to do with itinerancy, journey, the mystery of the gospel, wrestling with truth, engaging, and living inside the tension of the already/not yet. It has NOTHING to do with being "unsalty" or a dimly lit city on a hill. "<br /><br />I'm going to call foul on that one. Here's what the person who mentioned "living in the grey" actually said:<br /><br />"Blackjack makes people reassess what Christianity really is. And in a good way. We want to live in the grey. Because in the grey you've got to question who you are and what you're doing."<br /><br />See: contextually, there's *NOTHING* about itinerancy. *ZERO* about journey. *ZILCH* about the mystery of the gospel. *NIL* about wrestling with the truth, etc. etc.<br /><br />Further, contextually, that bit comes immediately AFTER footage of casino workers describing the outright deception that club members are using to gain access to casinos from which they've already been banned. It also comes immediately BEFORE one of the club members makes the utterly preposterous statement that "Anyone who seriously wants to be a disciple of Jesus should learn blackjack."<br /><br />In other words, it's awfully convenient for you to argue that Frank doesn't know what he's talking about when you have to completely redefine what the actual speaker has actually said on the matter and ignore all the contextual clues that totally undermine the definition you've given.<br /><br />Finally, you try to get around all those problems by saying that<br /><br />"As Christians we celebrate the Gospel paradox of mercy that invites us to love an otherwise "unlovable" neighbor. That is what lights our city on a hill."<br /><br />Okay...fine. But how exactly are you "loving" your "unlovable" neighbors the casinos? By cheating them out of money? Really?<br /><br />Sorry, bro--that kind of argument just won't stand.LanternBrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14727003028902907286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-31795564848959095372012-04-05T10:38:50.925-07:002012-04-05T10:38:50.925-07:00Frank:
I am happy to have invited you to view the...Frank:<br /><br />I am happy to have invited you to view the documentary film (not "video" ha ha).<br /><br />I am also happy that you spoke to it on your blog and gave people a forum to engage the topic.<br /><br />As to "excerpts" (I assume you mean clips from the film) I leave that in the hands of the director. It sounds like you feel shortchanged. I am sorry that we didn't get back to you about that.<br /><br />Now...back to the subject at hand.<br /><br />You said, "One of the subjects someplace says that they intentionally live in the gray areas to "make people think" or to "challenge" what people think they are doing. Astonishingly, again, that's not at all how the Bible describes the Christian life. Jesus himself says that you-all (you disciples, you Christians) are to be a city on a hill, or the salt of the Earth -- and what good is salt that has lost its saltiness?"<br /><br />Living in the grey has to do with itinerancy, journey, the mystery of the gospel, wrestling with truth, engaging, and living inside the tension of the already/not yet. It has NOTHING to do with being "unsalty" or a dimly lit city on a hill. As Christians we celebrate the Gospel paradox of mercy that invites us to love an otherwise "unlovable" neighbor. That is what lights our city on a hill.davdruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550282598931008541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-73178862662885598792012-04-05T09:49:49.863-07:002012-04-05T09:49:49.863-07:00Tommy, I picked up on that, too. In fact, Christs...Tommy, I picked up on that, too. In fact, Christs words to the tax collector were 'Hurry down from that tree because today I'm going to break bread with you'. Zaccheaus was so impacted by Christ that he volunteered to give half of his wealth to the poor and pay back four times whatever he had acquired by illicit means.Tobiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10144986761920854600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39534175625639374252012-04-05T09:47:38.022-07:002012-04-05T09:47:38.022-07:00Tom Chantry, I think you just hit the nail on the ...Tom Chantry, I think you just hit the nail on the head with your last statement.<br /><br />Instead of taking the money from the "casino" by using deceptive means, why not just go to these people personally and explain all of the stuff you already know (about odds and other things, not how to count cards).CSharpAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06231527863690958239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-7383906225528321402012-04-05T09:17:36.667-07:002012-04-05T09:17:36.667-07:00Hi Jeremy, I didn't ignore your comment becaus...Hi Jeremy, I didn't ignore your comment because it was contrary to mine, but because your comment was ambiguous in itself and Eric had already asked for clarification.<br /><br />Now that you've given some, I'll comment that I find it difficult in the extreme to understand how an activity can "support the values of Christ" while at the same time "contradicting some other scriptures" as you put it. If it does, in fact, contradict the written Word, then it is counter to the Word made flesh (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12:25&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">Mat 12:25</a>.<br /><br />In your first post you compared card counting to Christ's cleaning house at the temple. I find this a curious example, since Christ explained the rationale behind His actions: they had turned His father's house into a den of theives. That is, He was zealous to expose the corruption and spiritual bankruptcy of those taking advantage of the institution of sacrafices and offerings to line their own pockets. We really can't extend that to casinos, since God's not in the equasion (not even in the case of Bingo night at the local Catholic church).Tobiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10144986761920854600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-41603190758724921702012-04-05T08:30:17.018-07:002012-04-05T08:30:17.018-07:00Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the answer.
I wonder, th...Hi Jeremy,<br /><br />Thanks for the answer. <br /><br />I wonder, then, how is justice served by recouping money from the gambling institutions unless that money is somehow returned to the poor from which it was transferred? <br /><br />And I think that you have failed to make a compelling case that what this group was involved in "supports the values of Christ". The fact that this group may "feel a call to it" is fairly immaterial, since all sorts of heinous acts have been committed throughout history by folks who claimed that they felt a call to it. I also think you misuse the passage of scripture about Jesus in the temple in attempting to justify this behavior by saying that Jesus broke some rules, so it's all ok.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345630463450652762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-48883244531279562462012-04-05T08:29:36.242-07:002012-04-05T08:29:36.242-07:00Also, be wary of anytime you put your Bible down a...Also, be wary of anytime you put your Bible down and say, “Well I don’t see it here, must not be a black and white issue.” Trust in 2 Timothy 3:16, really let the fullness of that sink in. There’s a LOT that we still won’t know about God or His creation even in His glorious Word, but notice that’s not the point. His Word is…His words for us. What pertains to us. No one feels “called” to gamble, unless you truly see that as a legitimate ministry(please say it ain’t so), or more importantly, if you see spiritual leaders in Scripture using events not focused on God’s Word and worship or Him as ministry.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17533082006299313005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-54160769260484607062012-04-05T08:09:47.375-07:002012-04-05T08:09:47.375-07:00Jeremy,
I think Tobias didn’t include you because...Jeremy,<br /><br />I think Tobias didn’t include you because you’re still missing it, NOT because you disagree. Maybe show a little more grace while you’re talking, also. Makes people listen better.<br /><br />Again, what is the intent of the heart as you’re busy taking money from the Man? Are you focused on Christ during this? Are you emulating Him? If you are running this race as hard as possible, you’ll lay aside ALL burdens and weights. Especially when the point is literally just to generate more money.<br /><br />Also, thank you for giving us an analogy of what the casinos should do(even though you meant it to apply to us). What did Christ tell the tax collector? When I see the casinos giving the money back, then it will be a fantastic day. Jesus did NOT tell all those that were swindled to take the money back from the collector against his wishes. You’ve made our point well.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17533082006299313005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-63687759083961222522012-04-05T07:22:48.718-07:002012-04-05T07:22:48.718-07:00Tobias I also brought the topic back to scripture,...Tobias I also brought the topic back to scripture, or more importantly to the values of Christ as espoused through his life. But it ran contrary to what you wanted to hear so you ignored it.<br /><br />Eric, you are almost correct. I do not need to defend the idea, because I personally am not engaging in it. I merely see that these Christians feel a call to it, and based on the fact that it supports the values of Christ, while possibly contradicting some other scriptures, I find it ambiguous. Anything I find ambiguous is beyond my own comprehension to judge as only God can.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08845389293641545899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-26527821406189201402012-04-05T05:31:47.546-07:002012-04-05T05:31:47.546-07:00Thank you Tommy, Cathy, & semijohn for bringin...Thank you Tommy, Cathy, & semijohn for bringing this discussion back to scripture. We can argue over semantics for days, but eventually we must comes back around to what does the bible have to teach about the activity in question. Some relevant verses that come to mind: <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2010:12-13;21-24&version=NASB" rel="nofollow">1Cor 10:12-13 and 21-24</a> and <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+8:9-13&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">8:9-13</a>. If one's conscience allows the activity: well enough. But if my participating in the activity may cause a weaker brother or sister to fall: woe, woe. I will never again eat meat (or play cards for money).Tobiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10144986761920854600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-19615923329313842112012-04-05T05:20:04.853-07:002012-04-05T05:20:04.853-07:00Having grown up in Reno NV, and had parents who wo...Having grown up in Reno NV, and had parents who worked in casinos, I can speak on a personal level. We were frequently hungry, our bills ended up in collection agencies, my parents didn't come home sometimes, sidewalks outside casinos smelled like vomit, etc. <br /><br />Our community could argue (when casinos were owned by local people instead of corporations) that the casino industry put money into the community, but the harm done by them is much more extensive and now the money many times does not stay in the community but goes to a mega corporation looking to start casinos in other states as well.<br /><br />I think a good testimony for Christians is to work honestly, and not play with fire, so to speak. How does counting cards in any way glorify the God of the Universe. There is absolutely no redemptive value in an industry that overall strips people of dignity, an honest way to make a living, and exposes them to other temptations as well. How can any of these card counters honestly say they can be in that atmosphere and not be effected by that environment in a negative way?candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088593538648596769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-13325009910963103452012-04-05T04:46:46.771-07:002012-04-05T04:46:46.771-07:00semijohn:
Click the link, and scroll down. you d...semijohn:<br /><br />Click the link, and scroll down. you didn't scroll down past the first article for the index tag.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.com