tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post8756528096377391773..comments2024-03-10T10:40:32.319-07:00Comments on Pyromaniacs: Worship-service style: "Ch-ch-ch-changes," or "I shall not be moved"?Phil Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00649092052031518426noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-34002924992581503172014-03-03T13:23:07.900-08:002014-03-03T13:23:07.900-08:00Hilarious. After reading this all week, I show up ...Hilarious. After reading this all week, I show up at our service this week expecting <i>the usual.</i><br /><br />Everything is going along as normal. We sing the final congregation song before the sermon and, as everyone is beginning to sit, the pastor says "wait, wait."<br /><br />After a pause, he says, "I want you to say hi to somebody."<br /><br />It caught everyone off-guard completely. But it went well, we enjoyed a little fellowship. In fact, it seemed like he had difficulty calming us down.<br /><br />It was pretty neat!Michael Coughlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151414777657994736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33127636179083576862014-03-02T19:24:05.985-08:002014-03-02T19:24:05.985-08:00DJP-
Here's the order of service the way it u...DJP-<br /><br />Here's the order of service the way it used to be:<br /><br />Opening songs<br />Call to Worship (Bible Reading)<br />Invocation<br />Welcome / Announcements<br />Song<br />Personal Prayer and Reflection<br />Pastoral Prayer<br />Missions Minute (if we have one)<br />Hymn<br />Sermon<br />Hymn <br />Benediction<br /><br />Now it's:<br />Call To Worship / Hymn<br />Welcome / Announcements<br />Scripture Reading<br />Invocation<br />Hymns/Songs<br />Pastoral Prayer<br />Hymn<br />Sermon<br />(Communion)<br />Benediction<br /><br />They changed it for a better overall flow in the service and because it seems to facilitate a more serious/reflective demeanor. So far it seems to be doing that.<br /><br />My pastor will be at SC this week, so if you want his name, let me know and I'll see if I can facilitate a meeting with him if you want.<br /><br />Good luck with whatever you are working on!Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10685684588191291542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-25743699915450739582014-03-01T08:54:59.226-08:002014-03-01T08:54:59.226-08:00Well now that's nice to hear. Thank her for me...Well now that's nice to hear. Thank her for me.<br /><br />(c:DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-60581987283618320072014-03-01T08:53:42.377-08:002014-03-01T08:53:42.377-08:00Oh, She enjoys your posts too...lolOh, She enjoys your posts too...lolPuritan Dilemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360118261580379763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-53090896587090391842014-03-01T08:20:42.207-08:002014-03-01T08:20:42.207-08:00I'll try to remember to tell Phil your wife en...I'll try to remember to tell Phil your wife enjoys the site, when I see him.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-35612902387974421982014-03-01T06:37:54.774-08:002014-03-01T06:37:54.774-08:00Hello Phil, I have been enjoying your blog for som...Hello Phil, I have been enjoying your blog for sometime. Okay, honestly, i don't get your blog, my wife does, and she forwards them to me. Now that my conscience is clear: <br />I pastor a congregation with 103 members on the roll, with approx 130 in attendance. <br /><br />over a decade ago, it was a Landmark, Baptist Bride Church, with Arminian doctrine. Since then, we have become more and more reformed, family integrated and the process was handled in this manner: "Hey Joe, any idea why the church practices X?" "No pastor, i never thought about it I guess, hmmm, could you preach on that subject?" "Sure Joe, I will, and here is a book on it written by some old dead guy, you be reading this while I am preparing to preach on the subject." <br /><br />This same conversation would occur with joe, frank, jim, bill and any other visibly hungry disciple. <br /><br />Slowly, reform came as the preaching answered the why's of our orthopraxy. <br /><br />We moved from Normative to a Regulative form of worship over the next 8 years or so, incorporating Psalms along with our Hymns, Changing the Lord's supper from Grape Juice to Wine, Making the preaching the prime mover and purpose of our services, all the while reminding the people SDG for all our actions. <br /><br />We cancelled evening services and started a fellowship lunch and then an afternoon service immediately following so our elderly could get home and not drive in the dark. <br /><br />We opted for Family integration as opposed to the latest "radical youth" programs. <br /><br />We started a bible college which is simply an extended discipleship program that uses systematic theology as the form of operation. <br /><br />All in all the people at this church have been incredible as they are proving every week to be Bereans, much more noble than anywhere I have ever pastored... i really needed that. <br /><br />today, we are still reforming, still having growing pains and still learning that we don't know very much. <br /><br />Thanks for this idea, as the posts have been fantastic. Puritan Dilemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360118261580379763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-61481889314450200642014-03-01T05:06:50.061-08:002014-03-01T05:06:50.061-08:00Change just to be "different" is useless...Change just to be "different" is useless and usually is done for the benefit of the changer. Sometimes change is purposeful and enhances worship. That is good change. With or without change, the focus must always be on worshiping God through Christ. Anything else is folly.<br /><br />All things should be done decently and in order. What the order is, though, is not as important as its purpose. If it is to "wake people up," it is pretty much useless. If it furthers the cause of Christ it is useful.<br /><br />While that might sound all pious and aloof, it is none the less true. Too many churches pander to people instead of focusing on God.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693381971064363612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-12309156241542943052014-02-27T17:13:38.921-08:002014-02-27T17:13:38.921-08:00"What can a person do?"-Jason
Look for ...<br />"What can a person do?"-Jason<br /><br />Look for another church my friend. Or you could stay and pray, and gently try to make a difference. Perhaps share some good books on worship with your pastor and others. donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-33023097759585551832014-02-27T12:00:10.578-08:002014-02-27T12:00:10.578-08:00Possibly out of scope.
Twice I have been involved...Possibly out of scope.<br /><br />Twice I have been involved in this transition:<br />New, small, 11:00am service, 9:30am Sunday School.<br /><br />Growing: 8:00am service, 9:30am Sunday School, 11:00am Service.<br /><br />Grow some more: 8:00am service, 9:30am service and 11:00am service. Sunday school immediately begins to suffer, especially adult clasess. Eventually leads to no adult classes at all. Parents mostly come at 9:30am, children start out in 9:30am service and then are dismissed for a short class (1/2 hour). Large Sunday school reduced to a trickle and almost no youth where previously there were many more.<br /><br />Grow some more: Added 5:00pm Saturday evening service.<br /><br />I really did not like to see class time essentially go away on Sunday morning.Larry Geigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158449612437822789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39394759848221970642014-02-27T11:13:59.585-08:002014-02-27T11:13:59.585-08:00About 20 years ago, my family's church was fac...About 20 years ago, my family's church was faced with internal and/or denominational pressure to contemporize, and decided to go with two services, an early "traditional" service and a later "contemporary" service. Now when we go to visit my mom, many of the adults I knew growing up go to the early service, while a smaller number mixes with the younger crowd at the late service. The effect has largely been to create two mini-churches, under the same leadership but otherwise largely unconnected.<br /><br />More recently, our last church in the Chicago area had been doing two identical services. Over the summer the attendance/volunteers typically dropped a bit, and they would combine and do one service. During that summer some commented how much more they enjoyed being all together - you could especially tell the congregational singing was better. From our perspective, being new to the church and trying to get to know people, it was a lot easier seeing the same people every week. We told the pastor how much more we liked it, and he let us know they would consider sticking with one service because of so much positive feedback. And so they did.<br /><br />They just announced the change one week - pretty much just said they'd gotten so much good feedback over the summer, instead of going back to two, they'd stay with one for the foreseeable future. The complaints were minimal, since it was something we were already doing anyway. Overall it's been a great change for them, with better services and a more unified church, with minimal pushback.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-39392477731403608352014-02-27T07:51:54.648-08:002014-02-27T07:51:54.648-08:00DJP-
I don't have the order of service in fro...DJP-<br /><br />I don't have the order of service in front of me right now. Will post this weekend, when I can get my hands back on the list. <br /><br />Just wanted to let you know that I am not ignoring you and wasn't trying to be dense. :)Jay C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04911205715898675181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-89792352593420630232014-02-27T07:45:04.597-08:002014-02-27T07:45:04.597-08:00This is a story as a worshipper, not a leader, fro...This is a story as a worshipper, not a leader, from many years ago:<br /><br />We began to incorporate drums in our music at the beginning of the service (we have and continue to mix choruses and hymns). A couple of families pushed back about that, and handed the Elder board the usual sort of stuff about drums being evil and the rest.<br /><br />The Elder board (far more gracious men than I) searched through every translation and every language they could (english, hebrew, greek, german, french), and listed every instrument found in scripture, and what was said of them.<br />They prayed and prayed, and then responded to the families with their findings: there is no instrument prohibited by scripture, and so it becomes a matter of taste and/or meat sacrificed to idols. As they drums were enjoyed by the majority of the congregation (even the old ones), they would not be prohibited.<br /><br />Half the families involved left, the other half stayed. But, regardless of the outcome, I was impressed by the way the Elders responded. I would have said, "get over it," and moved on. By God's grace, I wasn't in that group.Chris Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09852172543604796279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-51585036857632617472014-02-26T22:32:20.428-08:002014-02-26T22:32:20.428-08:00I wish my church would change the format. Our pas...I wish my church would change the format. Our pastors wife leads worship every Sunday, lots of songs about "how we will do something for God" or "how we wish God will do something for us". She chooses a theme for every worship session and reads the odd bible verse to back up her theme. The problem arises when she starts to elaborate for a couple of minutes every now and then, it just seems as if she is teaching in church. She reads a scripture and explains it to the church with a little challenge. Worship lasts about 30 minutes or so. After our pastor has preached he closes in prayer and hands over to his wife to close the service with a song. Virtually every time she then takes the opportunity to finish off her mini sermon for another 5 minutes after which she closes in prayer. Her little sermons are often completely different to the main sermon. Unfortunaly her little sermons are often the only thing that most people remember as they are entwined with emotion, music and are short and lifestyle based challenges. <br /><br />What can a person do? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12021111513893812290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-90270748386551181862014-02-26T22:31:22.150-08:002014-02-26T22:31:22.150-08:00I wish my church would change the format. Our pas...I wish my church would change the format. Our pastors wife leads worship every Sunday, lots of songs about "how we will do something for God" or "how we wish God will do something for us". She chooses a theme for every worship session and reads the odd bible verse to back up her theme. The problem arises when she starts to elaborate for a couple of minutes every now and then, it just seems as if she is teaching in church. She reads a scripture and explains it to the church with a little challenge. Worship lasts about 30 minutes or so. After our pastor has preached he closes in prayer and hands over to his wife to close the service with a song. Virtually every time she then takes the opportunity to finish off her mini sermon for another 5 minutes after which she closes in prayer. Her little sermons are often completely different to the main sermon. Unfortunaly her little sermons are often the only thing that most people remember as they are entwined with emotion, music and are short and lifestyle based challenges. <br /><br />What can a person do? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12021111513893812290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-78078050486790348992014-02-26T14:33:34.872-08:002014-02-26T14:33:34.872-08:00I'd like to echo Tom's entreaty for 1) pra...I'd like to echo Tom's entreaty for 1) prayer, 2) teaching, and 3) patience for any change in a church. These are, to my mind, the three crucial elements. Prayer is the foundation, teaching is the mode or method, and patience is the approach. <br /><br />I have served as an elder at a previous church and am currently serving as one now, and though the most changes to the <i>service</i> that I have been involved with would be minor (such as doing one less song, or adjusting the placement of communion* in the order), I have been involved in both elderships with a rewrite of the church documents (bylaws/constitution and statement of faith), both of which meant fairly big changes in church governance. I can tell you that teaching with patience from the scriptures on the issues you want to change is key, particularly as they move out of areas of liberty and discretion (how many songs you sing, instruments used, the liturgical order) and move in to areas on which the Bible has something definite, important and imperative to say (the theological quality of the songs, whether or not to have a scripture reading, etc.). If you have a strong scriptural reason for changing what you want to change, and you show it from the Scriptures <i>patiently and over a LONG period of time</i>, the church will hear the words of the Lord and want to obey, and the patience will go a long way to soothing and working through the negative gut reaction most of us have to change, particularly change to something as concrete and regularly experienced as a church service.<br /><br />If you see a change that Scripture convicts you should be made, teach it. Then teach it some more. Then teach it some more, until the church finally says, "Why haven't we made the change yet?" If the change is more discretionary - and there may be very good, wise, and prudent reasons for it - it will depend much more upon the merits of your thinking.<br /><br />*The one instance where I was a part of "trying" a change of something of substance in the service was the mode of communion at a previous chruch - rather than passing the elements in the plates and little plastic cups down each row, we set them up and administered them from the front, with the congregation coming down to partake. We only did it a few times, and got a mixed (though slightly skewed to the negative) reaction, probably because the reasons were clear to us in leadership but never communicated or taught to the congregation.Aaron Snellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08551668915973379312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-64361171999683718192014-02-26T14:12:55.156-08:002014-02-26T14:12:55.156-08:00Given that we, as a Southern Baptist Church in the...Given that we, as a Southern Baptist Church in the south, still worship as John the Baptist did when he started our denomination, I'm mainly watching the comments to see what I can learn :)<br /><br />All kidding aside, I attempted to spearhead a change in a previous pastorate. Traditionally speaking, we still call people forward after the sermon (take it or leave it, it's a long-held practice). I'm uncomfortable, as an understatement, to have someone walk down the aisle, introduce himself, and then I present them as having become a Christian. Or as qualified to join the church as a member.<br /><br />So, I re-ordered the worship service to buy time to actually sit down with people who responded to the invitation. A simple shift: take the offering after the invitation, let someone other than the pastor make announcements, and be ready to actually interact with any responses to the message by sitting down with them and with Scripture.<br /><br />After 2 months, it was changed back due to the people who quit giving because "it wasn't part of church", who complained that no announcements were being made about important things (since the pastor wasn't doing it), and the unanimous opinion of the deacons that the service was running too long. This last was even though the service still ran the same length of time.<br /><br />So, my experience was negative in that regard. I did all the "leadership book" things: explained what we were doing, why we were doing it, and what the benefits would be. <br /><br />I underestimated the resistance to change and did not put in the theological underpinnings for why we need to shift our understanding of the invitation time. <br /><br />I still think it was a good idea--but Baptists don't do change well, so I'm considering whether or not to broach it in the church I serve currently.Doug Hibbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01099486048716032843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-85935284275855410282014-02-26T14:11:47.005-08:002014-02-26T14:11:47.005-08:00my last comment did not make it through.
Good c...my last comment did not make it through. <br /> <br />Good comments to look over.<br /> <br />I am joined with a Reformed Episcopal Church. <br />We have the liturgy, litany, and Common Book of Prayer.<br /> <br />I am more Baptist Reformed meself. <br />Yet I love this local gathering very much. Our pastor is very Reformed and preaches with love for Christ, and love for the truth, and love for his congregation.<br /> <br />Our services are well done, and we have a mixture of hymns with spiritual songs: 'One Thing Remains', 'Never Let Go', In Christ Alone, etc.<br /> <br />We do need some Ch-changes. Not so much the proclaiming of the Word and the music, but the atmosphere needs to be more for the younger Christinas, and perhaps more outreach would be good.<br />Our church has grown smaller by our congregation going to be with our Father; because we are quite an older congregation.<br /> <br />Good thoughts everyone. Thanks.<br /> <br />Have a terrific rest of the week in our Lord's grace and peace and joy Dan.<br /> <br />I used a quote of yours the other day on FB. Thanks for preaching the truth in love, and loving the truth. donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57799850518361861322014-02-26T14:05:01.919-08:002014-02-26T14:05:01.919-08:00My story is not as a pastor but as a volunteer lea...My story is not as a pastor but as a volunteer leader. We were for a time at a very young (demographically) VERY "hip" church. I was asked repeatedly to help serve in the music ministry. I declined several times because of strong philosophical disagreements but eventually gave in when the pastor encouraged me to effect change in the areas I wanted to see improvement in. Some of them were:<br /><br />1. Transitioning from hillsong/CCM songs to rearrangements of old hymns, Getty/Indelible Grace/Sojourn hymn arrangements and songs, and generally more doctrinally sound lyrics with fuller depth of meaning. This was met with mixed responses. Many liked the more meaningful songs but there were some complaints from congregants that they were reminded to much of the legalistic churches they grew up in or couldn't "connect emotionally" with these new songs. <br /><br />2. Transitioning the style of music from a very loud pop/rock electric guitar based sound which incorporated prerecorded tracks to a quieter, more acoustic guitar driven folk rock live instrument only style. The stated philosophy was they originally wanted to play the music loud enough that you couldn't hear other people singing so that you wouldn't hold back. This backfired in principle so that people would actually just stand around and sway to the music rather than participate. The change to a style where people could hear one another singing was met with overwhelming positive response and completely changed the level of participation by the congregation.<br /><br />3. Doing away with long musical solos and interludes. We never received much feedback on this change. <br /><br />4. Going from having literally no scripture outside the sermon time to using it as the basis and driver for the whole service. For a church that stressed expository sermons and preaching through books of the bible and frequently hour long plus sermons, I was shocked that the bible was otherwise never opened in our Sunday gatherings. We introduced calls to worship from scripture - typically from the psalms - along with sermon-topically-appropriate scripture readings between songs. We opened this up for congregants to participate by reading assigned texts at the appropriate times. Many people really enjoyed this because it gave them the opportunity to participate and lead in worship when before they were shut out because it was play music or you don't really serve a part. We also included topical scripture into our overhead slides for each song. Every song had scripture at the beginning for silent reading and reflection and any time there was a musical bridge/interlude/ transition from chorus to verse, scripture was displayed. The little feedback we received was very positive on this as well. <br /><br />5. Taking communion every week. We tried different methods but ended up after critiques and complaints with tables set up and a "come as you are led" time with two tables set up with bread and grape juice for intinction. I won't go into all the detail, but the final format was pushed back on by several (including myself) but the idea of taking communion weekly was widely accepted. Another issue with this was that it was never introduced by the pastor who taught, it was up to the music leader. Whenever I led I took it upon myself to try to draw a line directly from the gospel that was just preached (which was usually accomplished quite well) and the ordinance we were about to partake. <br /><br />6. One thing I fought against but couldn't win anyone over was the church had a fascination with turning the overhead lights off, running a stage light show and lighting a bunch of candles on stage. It smacked of the emotional manipulation I had seen in churches and youth groups growing up and seemed to have no purpose other than that. They were always sure to have the bright lights on for the sermon. <br /><br />My family is no longer at this church for a litany of reasons but the majority of the changes we worked for stuck and it seems like most of those were ultimately for the better. Hope this is helpful. A D Raineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17380686516520068364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-57478807786367226582014-02-26T12:36:46.484-08:002014-02-26T12:36:46.484-08:00Just a couple of comments (from a worshipper, not ...Just a couple of comments (from a worshipper, not a leader) about music, since so many seem to be mentioning that...<br /><br />1. We watched our former church transition to a Willow Creek style of worship, which included grouping all the songs into one long set rather than the more traditional (older?) style of interspersing them in the service. I see problems with that which weren't particularly spiritual, but bear mentioning.<br />First, having the songs spread out through the service helped some of us stay more attentive - stand up and sing, sit and listen, etc.<br />Second, the "worship set" was really long. Quite apart from the emotional manipulation I felt was taking place, it was just too darn long for some members of the congregation to continue to stand, especially the older folks. Of course, they could've sat while everyone else stood, but nobody wants to do that, you know? We actually had older people <i>passing out and collapsing</i> occasionally and had to call 911.<br />I brought up those concerns with the leadership, but they continued on that course.<br /><br />2. Our church (not the one above) pays great attention to the songs. We sing a mix of traditional hymns and more contemporary music, such as the Gettys, with careful attention to content. I'm so thankful the pastor has made this a priority! <br /><br />3. A couple of caveats about that, however. In the attempt to choose music that is relevant to the sermon topic, a lot of wonderful, rich hymns go unsung. Also, though we've been attending there for several years, we don't feel like we really KNOW many of the songs, because they vary so continually.<br /><br />I know, that's MUCH, MUCH better than an endless round of gushy, 7-11, God-is-my-boyfriend songs, and I am THANKFUL for my church and my pastor :D Still, I wish we were developing a repertoire that we (I?) could become familiar with.<br /><br />JulieHerding Grasshoppershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15668974245505544238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-602014936744208472014-02-26T11:42:09.323-08:002014-02-26T11:42:09.323-08:00Practical advice for those who might be wanting to...Practical advice for those who might be wanting to implement change but are being resisted by deacons who simply don't like change because it's change: Change the system for counting and entering the offering into the computer first. Later, when you want to make an actual change to the order of service, offer to let them go back to the old, familiar offering-counting system. Works every time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-70377344541233737432014-02-26T10:17:22.541-08:002014-02-26T10:17:22.541-08:00I know nothing about music but I couldn't help...I know nothing about music but I couldn't help but notice the comments about the song, "He lives." I used that song as an illustration once and compared it to the opening of 1 John. <br /><br />Did you know that the song was written as an answer to the question, "Why should I worship a dead Jew?" What's even sadder, this question was asked by a young jewish boy. How tragic that the song writer's answer was, "He lives within my heart."<br /><br />We recently hired a music pastor about a 1 1/2 years ago and he has implemented some changes in our music. One thing he does is constantly read scripture throughout the service, in between, before, and after songs. On top of reading Scripture, he asks challenging questions based on the songs or the Word. He mixes up the way he does this so it always keeps you on your toes, not allowing you to get into a rhythm. This makes it very difficult to turn on auto pilot and mechanically work through the music. He truly creates a worship environment for our congregation. It may not be much, but I feel blessed to have a man who desires to create an environment of worship with music. <br />Drew Sparkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11202109937980139098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-82793347289580511062014-02-26T08:19:27.126-08:002014-02-26T08:19:27.126-08:00...continued...
After the music/communion, the ch......continued...<br /><br />After the music/communion, the children and teachers come forward and we pray for them. Again, this was a welcome sight for many, as we have lots of young moms and dads and to see them all come up and be prayed for is a blessing. <br />I preach for 40-45 minutes on average. Yes, people were happy with that. <br /><br />Basically, the service starts at 10:30 am, and ends at 12:00 noon. We then have a fellowship dinner in the hall next door (about 60-70% stay for the meal). The meal is a real highlight and opportunity for us. Many people are not doing well financially, and we make a lot of extra food, so this allows them to take some home with dignity and we fed them for a day. The teachable moments are legion. If you want to get to know you people, as a pastor, this is a great way to do it. And yes, I live in the south, and yes, there is a lot of fried chicken there, but I have still lost more than 40 pounds over the last seven months. You just have to be careful at the table, and perhaps make up for it tomorrow. <br /><br />I believe that our developing a church handbook/doctrinal and practical position/discipleship training tool (our book, “The Fellowship Files”) has had a tremendous influence on our ability to enact biblical, positive change. Also, insisting on a formal membership process increased “commitment to investment”. The members are never “blindsided” by any changes; we discuss them ahead of time. It is usually been quite easy to reach consensus. I have found that if you teach the underlying truth ahead of time, the truth that informs your reasons for change, then it becomes clear for those who must accept and adapt to the changes. <br /><br />Grace and peace,<br /><br />J.D.<br /><br />Even So...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14208866122431178938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-72285706060992590322014-02-26T08:18:54.134-08:002014-02-26T08:18:54.134-08:00Dan,
this will be in two parts...
Over the last ...Dan, <br />this will be in two parts...<br /><br />Over the last ten years we have implemented quite a few changes in our liturgy. I’ll share some and the process of how the changes were made and how they were received. At the end, I’ll state my reasons why I think we have been successful in implementing positive change to our liturgy, and our overall church culture. <br /><br />We added a pastoral opening prayer and a scripture reading before the music portion. There was always pray, of course, but now it is more focused, and we have people stand for the reading. This wasn’t hard to do at all; people welcomed the addition of the reading. <br /><br />Music: Instead of 10 to 12 “selections” (lots of CCM choruses, many were just “little ditties”, charismatically bent, a “happy clappy” overload, etc.) we now have 6 “psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs”. So the time went from 45 minutes to 20. We have a mix of old and new choices, and sometimes old lyrics with new arrangements. We have several members who have written their own music and songs, and we use those. We also use also Getty’s and whatever else we consider as theologically good and rich music from today’s era. Any new addition to our repertoire must be approved by the elders. This took some time, but it was made easier by the fact that our services were over two hours long when I preached for over an hour. So I learned to be more clear and concise, and they let me tweak the number of songs. <br /><br />During the offering (taken during the third song) people can also participate in what we call the “Pool of Prayer”. I won’t go into it here, but over the course of time everyone winds up praying for everyone else, without any unwieldy and unmanaged prayer lists. It is a focused way for specific needs to be prayed for by an individual who focuses on one person and their needs for the week. I did a sermon on this and we have handouts and occasional reminders of what this is and how it is done. Visitors can participate too. We have seen other churches use this when I explain it to them. It is perhaps the most well received change we have made. <br /><br />Prayer time: During the fourth and fifth “songs”, while everyone else is still singing, we have some folks down front to pray with others who come forward. This was met with no resistance. I explain what it is every Sunday, as we have the prayers come forward. <br /><br />We now recite the Nicene Creed on the first Sunday of every month, which is also when we celebrate Communion (we distribute the elements during the sixth song, which is ordinance based, as in “Come Share the Lord”, or similar). Again, this was not hard to do; I thought I might get some pushback regarding the creed, but the folks I thought would have an issue actually were quite pleased with our connecting to the historical faith. We gave a detailed explanation in the bulletin as an insert and talked at length about the creed and its historical context for the first few times we observed it. Everyone seems eager to recite it now. <br /><br />...continued...Even So...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14208866122431178938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-74572448849336127142014-02-26T08:01:34.052-08:002014-02-26T08:01:34.052-08:00Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I am a ...Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I am a newly-appointed minister of music at a Baptist church, and am trying to bring more liturgical tradition to the services, while being sensitive to requests and needs from the congregation. I have been using the liturgical calendar and then mixing with that the requests and special occasions that may occur. This seems to be working well. <br /><br />The main thing I do not feel led to bend on is using tracks. I greatly dislike using tracks when we have good live musicians here in our church. Some folks still want to sing solos or ensemble pieces with a track, and I have no objection to that in its finality-if I can't talk them into using our accompanist, I let it go for the most part. I'm interested in preparing the hearts of the people to hear the Word-that's the most important thing to me.<br /><br />Stephen Len White<br />Stephen Len Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09166169052829885661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21212024.post-91134403253432804062014-02-26T07:37:24.322-08:002014-02-26T07:37:24.322-08:00WOW! I'd like to have been a fly on that wall....WOW! I'd like to have been a fly on that wall.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.com