12 July 2007

So much for "Hiatus"

by Frank Turk

Yeah, OK. My personal blog is on hiatus, but I spent this week trying to talk some sense to Dan Edelen, and now I'm Pyroposting today ... at least I didn't post at my own blog.

And I wouldn't be posting here today, either, if I hadn't been working so hard at my day job. I was working like a slave for my boss, browsing the internet (don't laugh), and this ad turns up on the site I was trying to get something from:

Which is an interesting message to see on a wholly-secular web site. "Does God really know me?" So I stopped working long enough to see what's about to happen, and this is the next thing I see:

And that phrase -- "now restored" -- makes me a little antsy. My apologetics Spidey sense starts buzzing, and I feel like I need to jump out of the way. But I don't: I watch as the image as it morphs again, and I see this:

And it turns out there are like 3 or 4 different versions of this flash ad reaching out to people's felt needs, and claiming the truth about life's great questions is now restored.

Think about that, people: the Mormons are claiming to have restored the truth about God. That's nothing new if you're into Mormon apologetics, but in an environment when they are trying very hard to be seen as "another" denomination, they are actively saying they have "restored" the truth about God and life.

The Mormons.

You blog about it. I'm on hiatus.

PS from Phil:

Hey! Let's not forget it's kitty-cat month here at PyroManiacs.

Phil's signature


Doug said...

How very post-modern of them to appeal to people's felt needs. I wonder if they offer 40 days of purpose as well.

Solameanie said...

Al Mohler has been engaged in a debate with a Mormon writer over at Beliefnet. I think Al links to it on his blog. Funnily enough, the Mormon writer (Orson Scott Card) admits that Mormon theology is far removed from evangelical Christianity.

Needless to say, Al has begun taking him apart piece by piece.

Kalev said...

LOL well apart from the grammatical error "The truth about life's great questions is here"...ARE here... they're so messed up they can't even spell right.

and restoring the truth? when did truth ever go out of existence? It's a little bit of an arrogant comment to make, saying that they are the ones that "Restored" truth... I thought that God was truth? did they restore God? that would be some task for us little humans.

I've delt with Mormons for many years, and they are very blind to the real truth. They need to be prayed hard for.

Brad Williams said...


You know, I think one of the most valuable services on a blog is simple linkage to quality/unquality? stuff. I appreciate you pointing interesting things out. Justin Taylor does alot of this at his place, and I find it very helpful. So, don't disappear completely. Give me a link to something good every now and then.

Sharon said...

Phil: Please check your work email. You shall be rewarded.

candy said...

Hmmm. The Mormon Church must have a new prophet or something.

It is obvious that the kitty takes offense.

Unknown said...

Doug: VERY humorous comment - I live in south Orange County and fear the 40 acres of church up El Toro road.

Caleb: The 'to be' verb in that sentence is tied to the subject "the truth" which is singular. The correct conjugation therefore is "is". If you remove the clause 'about life's great questions', you're left with "The truth...is here" which, while HIGHLY disturbing, is gramatically correct.

I would like very much to unleash that displeased cat on the whole of the Mormon church - what a dangerous, deceptive, Satanic demonized system this is, huh??

Stefan Ewing said...

There is a definite, discernible theme to the kitty-kat images that seem to be popping up on almost every goshdarned post now.

brentjthomas said...

"For I will consider my Cat Jeoffrey
For he is the servant of the Living God duly and daily serving Him.....
For he knows that God is his Savior.
For there is nothing sweeter than his peace when at rest.
For there is nothing brisker than his life when in motion."
Excerpts from "Jubilate Agno" by Christopher Smart (1762)

wordsmith said...

Perhaps the kitty-kat theme is to ward off accusations of being "dog"matic.

Hope Wrigley isn't feeling put out by this feline invasion.

brentjthomas said...

Is the photo of the guy with the shotgun a photo of you, Mr. Turk? Is this the modern way to "take the sword".

FX Turk said...

Caleb: the core sentence is "the truth is here". "about life's great questions" is a subordinate clause to the subject "the truth". The verb takes its number from the subject. I take some solice in the really weird word order they employed -- it must be translated from the Ancient Egyptian or something.


For the record, I have taken a 24-hour cool-down over your gratuitous use of SuperKitty yesterday. That graphic deserved a higher-octane post than the one it got.


FX Turk said...


Close enough, dude. I couldn't get the GiMP to correctly scale the words "OLD TESTAMENT" and "NEW TESTAMENT" on the barrels of the gun.

Solameanie said...

Would it be perverse to suggest posting either a copy of the album cover art from Al Stewart's "Year of the Cat?" If that fails, perhaps a photo of a Kit Kat chocolate wafer? Maybe a running list of titles with the word "cat" in them i.e. "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" or "Cat Ballou?"

Okay, now that I'm done funnin, the Mormons have been pretty good at slick media campaigns in recent years. From their television ads giving away a free King James Bible to this, they are pretty well done. I wonder that there hasn't been much counter to the ads by evangelical groups.

Stefan Ewing said...

Cent: Haha, too bad—that would have been classic!

David A. Carlson said...

Best comment over at D.E.'s Blog

"I never really did understand why non-Charismatics are so vehemently opposed to operating in the Spirit. Can anyone enlighten me?"

and on a side note - sweet over/under 12 gauge. Anyone we know holding it?

FX Turk said...

It's a stock photo I doctored.

And that comment is "sweet" only in how far it betrays the writer's biases.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand how a conservative christian blog can have an image of a cat on it.

We all know that cats were created through a very bad experiment by injecting rats with some kind of stupid serum.

Slippery slope

David A. Carlson said...

I was going to comment on how amazing it was for someone to completely not get it, but then I figured someone here would start muttering about pot...kettle...black and decided to pass

Leberwurst said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leberwurst said...

and for really cool puppy pix make sure and visit Pecadillo's site

Solameanie said...

You mean Pec has posted something new?

Red alert...red alert. Interceptors, immediate launch!

dle said...


I'm disappointed that I find this post and then see the implication that I'm deluded because you felt "the need to talk some sense" into me.

This is the kind of superiority issue that plagues Pyromaniacs. It bothers me that Team Pyro never seems to acknowledge this. You guys have many cogent things to say and don't need to stoop to the "street fighter" pose to get your points across. That only dilutes your message. Sure it pumps up the fanboys, but it comes at the expense of humility.

I don't go into conversations with other Christians, no matter how contentious the issue, with the idea that I'm going to talk sense into delusional people. It's like when I responded to you that I wasn't interested in "blasting each other" online and then you told me you were kidding. But you weren't kidding when you get right down to it. The fact that you "felt the need to talk some sense" into me shows your hand. Were you really wanting civil dialog between Christian brothers or were you looking to blast some delusional heretic?

Aaron S said...

The Mormons are trying pretty hard now to make a deeper impact via the internet.

But one can only do so much to prevent people from exposure to the Nauvoo Expositors of the internet.

Aaron S said...

Here's some info on their new advertising campaign:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be testing an exciting new media approach in your area. Information about the media test and how it affects members of the Church, including ideas to enhance missionary work, is provided by Elders M. Russell Ballard and Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, with Elders Quentin L. Cook and Richard G. Hinckley of the Quorum of the Seventy."


David A. Carlson said...

Although I think the commenter in DE's blog (very indirectly) touched on a valid point of consideration - I do think that many evangelicals/fundamentalists spend more time critisizing others (wrong) views of the Holy Spirit (which is a good thing), but not much time talking about the how the Holy Spirit does work in believers lives (a better thing). I do think that for some believers it is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Bible. The lack of education, discusion and study on the role of the Holy Spirit I think in part leads to people to ensnared by the false teaching typified by Benny Hinn and others.

Habitans in Sicco said...

dle: "I don't go into conversations with other Christians, no matter how contentious the issue, with the idea that I'm going to talk sense into delusional people."

Obviously not.

But you're not above posting angry scoldings about trivial affronts, or lobbing a few ugly rocks from inside your own glass house (after starting out a post claiming Christians who argue with one another are a good argument against the truth of Christianity!?). So don't pretend you have all the splinters of pomposity and hypocrisy our of your own cornea, dude.

Stefan Ewing said...

I know I've never been described as a pumped-up fanboy before....

DLE, I know your comment was not just about me or just about this post, but as my comment was probably of the sort that fed into your stereotype, let me clear something up.

Cent's graphic (the way he described his envisioning it, with "Old Testament" and "New Testament" inscribed on the two barrels) just sounded like something out of some kind of revisionist, Quentin Tarantino-style Western, where the village preacher is also the best shot west of Chicago. The imagery alone is all that intrigued me.

In truth, I firmly believe in turning the other cheek. What I appreciate this blog for is its consistently discerning truth from error. That doesn't mean that I take any pleasure from seeing people being held up as examples, and it certainly doesn't "pump me up."

Julo said...

We had both the JWs and the Mormons come in the SAME day today.

My heart just breaks at the PERVERSION of the gospel these folks are spreading.

Randy said...

Ok...enough of the cat pics. I own a Beagle. I want some pictures of Wrigley.

FX Turk said...


So the picture of a guy with a gun is a violation of Christian love and virtue?

Let me say this as plainly as possible: man up. Behave like a man. Stop finding offenses where none is evident or reasonable.

Since a picture is a metaphor, my anonymous critic, at whom was the shotgun pointed? Is it pointed at men of good faith, or at plainly-false teachers? See: this is not about being somewhat-belligerent toward people who don't know any better. This is about taking aim at men who are frankly seeking to co-opt the Gospel.

This isn't about anathematizing Presbyterians, or castigating free-will baptists as if they were rank unbelievers. Intellectual violence is being done here by the LDS, and in return I have -only- uncovered it -- not even refuted it.

That's why "old testament" and "new testament" needed to be on the barrels of the shotgun.

Here's what's interesting about your complaint to me: at any time, you can contact my pastor (tadt*at*habc.net) and tell him what your concern with me is. When my blog was active, his link was clearly displayed on my blog. And you could do that by telling him "Frank said this".

You, unfortunately, are utterly anonymous. You might not even have a pastor for all we know. You might not even be a Christian. In that, if you want to pick nits, perhaps you should first brush the swarm of mating horseflies off your oun housecoat before you seek to inspect my hairline for lice.

Everything is not a moral offense. And military metaphors are not offensive as they are everywhere in Scripture. Grow up.

FX Turk said...

BTW, nice to see Habitans in sicco rear his ugly head.

dle said...

I made no mention of Frank's graphic. The graphic isn't the point.

The point is that sometimes we Christians who have a good command of the Scriptures adopt a "street fighter" pose as if to say, "Hey, let's go down to the local heretic church and give them a couple theological brass knuckles across the chops."

But that's not humility. It's not humility to say that you went over to someone else's blog and try to talk some sense into them, because they are so obviously deceived while you are so obviously correct.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Bonhoeffer writes that the sinning brother is still a brother and should be treated with respect, not condescension, because of what Christ has done for both of us.

Team Pyro has many excellent traits. It doesn't have to descend into condescension in order to be a fortress of truth. It's a problem all of us Christians face, not any one group or denomination. The Bible has this to say:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
---Luke 18:10-14

But I did not come here to claim that I needed to talk some sense into any of you. You already know the truth. You are all people of good sense with a fine grasp of Scripture. But we are also all Christian brothers, all fallen, who can sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron without resorting to denigration. We don't have to look down on others to make our points.


FX Turk said...

Oh Brother. Speaking of brass knuckles ...

I'll be glad to listen to your anonymous rebuke, DLE, if you can demonstrate in what phrase or paragraph in my post I broke out "the brass knuckles" on the LDS.

Please. For my edification and sanctification.

Phil Johnson said...


Apparently the anonymous "DLE" is Dan Edelen, and I think he assumes you know that. He's offended by your quip about setting him straight. That's what all this is about; not the shotgun or the Mormons.


Nothing in your profile link identifies who you are. It goes to a dead-end page that says "profile not available."

I didn't catch on to who you are until about your fourth or fifth complaint, earlier this week. I would have answered your first reply to my original post if you had only identified yourself. I hope my failure to respond did not add to your hurt feelings.

I am sorry that you were offended by my post last week. However, notice that I'm not the one who brought Benny Hinn into the conversation. My charismatic interlocutor was. Moreover, my I did not equate the more sound-minded and confessionally-straight charismatics with Hinn; I merely pointed out that there isn't a healer among the more "conservative" charismatics whom anyone ever points to as an example of someone who possesses the true and authentic apostolic gift of healing.

Instead, wiser charismatics like Grudem (and even some less level-headed charismatics like Jack Deere), themselves freely admit that what we're seeing in charismatic circles today are not the apostolic-quality gifts such as the gifts of healing described in Acts 3; Acts 5:15-16; Acts 19:11-12, etc. That's no different, really, from the point I made last week. But as I have pointed out before, that actually reflects a kind of cessationist opinion.

That is the one point I have consistently tried to make about cessationism. Please re-read last week's post in that context. Perhaps you'll have a different take on it.

I hope so, anyway. Your critique of my post at your blog badly misconstrued what I intended. I'm very sorry if my writing was really that unclear. I'll try to do better next time. Thanks for all your admonitions.

brentjthomas said...

If there were no images involving weapons for use as metaphors, there would always still be available hand-to-hand imagery and metaphor. "You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try to kill each other like civilized people?"
Westley, in "The Princess Bride"

FX Turk said...


If that's Dan Edelen, then Dan owes me an apology. I cut short my exchange with him at his blog because he's going through a personal "tsunami" (his words). I even apologized to him for intruding on his hard week.

If he has time to come here and stir up opinions, but gets his kitten-fur in a bunch when I chase down his poorly-considered affirmations because his life is hard, well, it seems a little one-sided (as usual, for the charismatic/emergent types) is all I'm going to say.

If that's you, Dan, fess up. If it's not, then shame on Phil for spreading rumors and getting me all cross-eyed.

FX Turk said...

Wow. That graphic really pops with the "OT" and "NT" on the barrels of the shotgun.

Unknown said...

Hi, I'm Jeff from Toronto, Canada. I came across this interesting site on apologetics for Mormons. See www.ldslearning.org. It has two free books for download too.