03 December 2008

Wednesday, in 50 words or less

by Frank Turk


After listening to the WTS discussion between Doug Wilson and Christopher Hitchens, I am wholly convinced that if those who think they are enemies of the Bible and the Christian religion actually read the book as if it were a book and not a list of slogans, there would be fewer complaints about what we believe by 90%.

That's all.


Ron said...

Are you serious? Actually read it?? The whole thing???

(sarcasm intended)

Chris Roberts said...

Ron's point is valid. Why expect non-Christians to read it when we can't even get Christians to crack the covers?

David Kyle said...

Chris, I would have to question if one is really a Christian if there is no desire to read the Word of God. Maybe what you meant to say is "we can't even get people who call themselves Christian to crack the covers."

I'm just sayin'

Jeff said...

This response to the debate by Dr. Scott Oliphint, should probably be noted.

Stefan Ewing said...

Apparently, 60 is the new 50.

(And I write this as someone who is not exactly Hemingwayesque himself in terms of average word count.)

Al said...

Frank, that statement can go both ways...

I heard an interview with Hitchens who said that it was a pleasure debating Wilson, since he actually believed the Bible. This was in contrast to many of his other opponents.

al sends

FX Turk said...

I would call Hitchens' use of Scripture "facile", not "thorough" or even "literate".

Here's why I say that: I suggest that if he cited and considered Wodehouse the way he cites and considers the books of the Bible, he and Wilson would haave had a far-less convivial "off-time".

I can cite an example or two if someone needs more detail.

NothingNew said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NothingNew said...

There is also some interesting stuff on the web about 'Christopher Hitchens vs. Peter Hitchens' for those who are interested.

While Christopher is an atheist his brother Peter is a Christian who doesn't take most of the Bible literally.

So it makes me wonder if Christopher sees the inconsistency in Christians (like his brother) who proclaim the authority of Jesus, yet they trivialize other parts of the Bible that they personally don't like.

While both Christopher and Peter are both very smart individuals who are right on some important political and social issues, they both appear to be incredibly wrong on key issues related to faith and theology.

. said...

I agree, Mr. Turk's point is valid. Some Christans are excited to dig deep into theological principles or study scripture within the framework of a system of understanding. Other, truly justified, believers seem bent on missing out on the joy that exploring their relationship with the Creator through His word can bring.
Our job, in part, is to help "non-readers" understand just how much joy they are missing. The Word is God and God, as one famous theologian wrote, "is so vastly wonderful, so utterly and completely delightful that He can, without anything other than Himself, meet and overflow the deepest demands of our total nature, mysterious and deep as that nature is."

Dan Grubbs
Portico Dialogue

Hoop said...

I agree and disagree.

I agree there are those who read it like a book and thats not helpful

But there are those who read it as though they think they were there to validate it 100%

Both are not helpful


Most people who say that are people who dont read it themselves. They judge others because it takes attention of themselves.

The part that is funny is that you think its important, you have missed the point of it.

I recommend reading Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman


FX Turk said...

Ehrman's book is a bit of a disaster. What did you find compelling about it?

David Kyle said...

Hoop, are you judging me?

Jim Crigler said...

I haven't listened to the debate (yet?), but it's appropriate (or ironic) that Doug Wilson should debate a non-Christian who uses the Bible as a source of inspirational quotes, since I have heard him (DW — that's Doug Wilson, not Dark Wing Duck) in person bemoaning that tendency among Evangelicals.

Learning Grace said...

Thank You Mr. Turk, that was an excellent listen.

As a former Atheist who was evangelized through evidentialists (namely Josh McDowell, or at least indirectly... it was a friend who handed me the book) I've always been scared that further evidence was going to push me away from Christ, so I've never really looked into the other side much, having had my fill of it in the years B.C..

Of course I've since moved to a more suppositional standing and a reformed theology, but still the fear lingers. I've recently taken to listening to James White debates as a means of combating that fear, figuring at least the opposition won't be one sided. This has really helped me greatly.

When I saw your post, I was very trepidations. I simply did not want to hear my former sin pronounced by such a great proponent, but you recommended it and it was a debate, so I listened.

What an eye opener. I heard my old lines of arguments coming out a very distinguished British accent (which seems to lend every argument moral weight) and I'm shocked to find that this is the best they(I) can offer. He couldn't consistently stay within his worldview or leverage anything but straw men against Wilson's position. And though he makes claims to a more informed position on the issues, its clear he's never actually read the Bible very clearly or done any in depth research on it. All in all, I found that the Muslims, as misinformed on textual-critical issues as they are, presented a more compelling case, and this is the leading Atheistic Apologist...

Once again, thanks for braving the enemy's lines. Know that it is encouraging to us of littler faith.