From popular demand from the meta of the previous post. (Once again, click on the pix for enlargements, if you wish.)
Saturday night: ahh, this is the life. So glad God made yummy food!
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.(1 Timothy 4:1-5)
On Sunday I took Josiah to the Mt. Whitney fish hatchery, the prettiest I've ever been to:
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth"(Genesis 1:28)
This is a waterfall across the street from the Bishop Creek Lodge. My family stayed there when I was very small.
How small? My father would literally put me in his backpack and hike up to the top of the falls with me. I actually remember the experience, one of my very few childhood memories. We have a charcoal sketch of my dad and me sitting atop the waterfall, made by a family friend.
"...in the wilderness, where you have seen how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, all the way that you went until you came to this place"(Deuteronomy 1:31)
Then we went on Monday to Lake Sabrina, where the fall colors were beginning to blaze.
We left a good-sized brown trout unmolested. With some regrets. (On our part.)
We trekked on a trail around the lake, and saw more beautiful colors.
So many shades of green! What a beautiful creation.
O LORD, how manifold are your works! In wisdom have you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures.
(Psalm 104:24)
(Psalm 104:24)
Josiah touched the cold lake water, which makes me think of a verse in Proverbs, which makes me think of the Gospel.
Like cold water to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.(Proverbs 25:25)
But later that day, as we gazed across the Owens Valley towards the White Mountains, the sun had to set on our day as our trip drew to a close.
And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day(Genesis 1:23 — okay, sorry, that one's a stretch!)
...as does this little excursion.
Thanks for encouraging me to share that with you.
59 comments:
Dan,
Thanks so much for sharing these pictures and moments from your trip. It blesses me and brings me bake to special places and reminds me of special times with the Lord.
Like when I hear the song "Friends" by Joe Satriani, it takes me back to driving out of Mono Lake, after sunset.
One question: On the first picture, next to the steak, what's the green stuff? :) Must be a California thing.
Oh, I thought you were gonna talk about Sunday?
My son's jacket, cup, or plate? The salad? The bag of garlic bagel chips from Costco?
As to the latter, I have it mostly written, it is now marinating, you are still being cliffhanged.
Next week, Lord willing.
(c;
First picture: If God did not want us to eat animals why did He make them out of meat?
Last picture: Psalm 57:1 Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me, for in you my soul takes refuge; in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge, till the storms of destruction pass by.
It may still be a stretch.
Loved the pictures Dan
al sends
Proof positive you're a man of wisdom, Dan: That bottle of A1 Sauce in the first picture.
You've got some spectacular pictures there. Thanks for posting them, along with apropos scriptures.
It's really my son, in that case, Steve. I'll pass along your compliments to Josiah: he loves his A1!
I can almost hear you whispering, "West and wewaxation. At wast!"
lol
Man that waterfall is cool looking. It looks as though the water just springs right out of that peek in the rock with no stream feeding it.
That trout would of made a nice meal. No fishing poles?
Great pictures!
Yes, Philness, you're right. That's exactly how it looked, walking around from where we were: no line of trees leading down to it. (I don't really remember from when I was 4 or 5, or whatever I was.)
We had poles, but we already had steak, and opted not to fish. (Josiah's not the fish-lover I am.)
If God did not want us to eat animals why did He make them out of meat?
I love that! Along that line:
I love animals. They're delicious.
There's a place for all God's creatures. Right next to the potatoes and gravy.
"Al said...
First picture: If God did not want us to eat animals why did He make them out of meat?"
MMMmmmmeat
That's right. We cherish God's creatures. Some, we even relish. And garnish.
The Duoulos beat me to it, but I have visual aids!
Simply gorgeous. So much better looking scenery than one can find in the smog-laden San Fernando Valley. Poor Phil.
If you brought along garlic bagel chips from Costco, can I assume that you also brought along a Costco frozen meat chub for protection? Of course, the garlic might suffice, but you never know with hungry bears or postmoderns on the prowl.
We actually had a Smart & Final meat chub in the shopping cart on our last day there, but worked out that steaks would be cheaper than burgers. (We'd have to buy ketchup, cheese....)
Man math.
I really enjoyed this post. I've been making a conscious effort to see God's Word in more of everyday life and the way you did it with your pictures is a great way (to me at least) of putting flesh to faith as some say.
A1 sauce? Well done sir! :)
If I'd seen that Brown in that beautiful water I just know I'd have tossed a streamer its way.
Well, except you know the rule: if you can see the trout, the trout can see you.
I agree with Mark. This past May, I went to the Master's College graduation to see a friend of mine graduate... and then to drive his car back to NJ with him (in 4 days!).
Especially through California, Arizona, Utah, and Colorado, I was thinking about how glorious the creation is, and how just by virtue of its being glorifies to its Creator.
At one point I got to thinking... If the fallen creation glorifies God just by virtue of its being created by God, how much more do the redeemed of Christ glorify His mercy and grace just by being. We're walking, talking testimonies to the grace of God! Further than that... the creation has no divine nature. It's fallen, and groans in anticipation of its redemption. We, disgusting sinners that even the fallen creation doesn't wish to bear, are redeemed!
What a work that has been performed in us! How God's glory is displayed in saving sinners! Even our righteous deeds were filthy rags, but we look forward to being clothed with fine, white linen! God is glorified in US... and only because of HIS sovereign grace.
Creation is truly glorious when it brings such things into the heart.
Oh my goodness gracious, Dan: those photos and those passages are just magnificent.
I'm thinking "as on the wings of an eagle," "in the cleft of the rock," Jobian verses about eagles and high mountains and whatnot, and for the last one, anything about the wilderness. But I have no time today to look up chapter and verse. I know all you godly folks already know the relevant verses offhand anyhow.
Praise the Lord for the magnificence of His created world!
"You yourselves have seen...how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself." (Exodus 19:4)
"Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars / and spreads his wings toward the south? / Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up / and makes his nest on high? / On the rock he dwells and makes his home, / on the rocky crag and stronghold." (Job 39:26-28)
"When the poor and needy seek water, / and there is none, / and their tongue is parched with thirst, / I the Lord will answer them; / I the God of Israel will not forsake them. / I will open rivers on the bare heights, / and fountains in the midst of the valleys. / I will make the wilderness a pool of water, / and the dry land springs of water. / I will put in the wilderness the cedar, / the acacia, the myrtle, and the olive. / I will set in the desert the cypress, / the plane and the pine together, / that they may see and know, / may consider and understand together, / that the hand of the Lord has done this, / the Holy One of Israel has created it." (Isaiah 41:17-20)
Mike. Creation didn't fall. We did. We were called to be stewards of the creation before the fall, and so the brokenness that we see in creation is not due to the creation "falling," but due to our mis-management.
Now, we could say that it is "cursed," but again, what did it do? Nothing. It was cursed because of our behavior. So I still don't think we can call it "fallen."
Semantics Drew, semantics.
First Pic...steak is way too done. No wonder you need A1 :) 130 degrees...no more...no less.
The pics of the river and the yellow ?flowers? bushes? are fantastic. If you happen to have one 1920x1200 or bigger, I could use it for my laptop.
What fantastic photos. Thanks again for sharing.
Drew,
I was referring to Romans 8:20-22. Seems pretty clear to me.
For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth
together until now.
Lest I get the "many interpretations response," I cite Spurgeon. Sure, he's not authoritative like Scripture, but it helps that the Prince of Preachers made the same observation that I did.
Spurgeon: Creation glows with a thousand beauties, even in its present fallen condition; yet clearly enough it is not as when it came from the Maker's hand—the slime of the serpent is on it all—this is not the world which God pronounced to be "very good." We hear of tornadoes, of earthquakes, of tempests, of volcanoes, of avalanches, and of the sea which devoureth its thousands: there is sorrow on the sea, and there is misery on the land; and into the highest palaces as well as the poorest cottages, death, the insatiable, is shooting his arrows, while his quiver is still full to bursting with future woes. It is a sad, sad world. The curse has fallen on it since the fall, and thorns and thistles it bringeth forth, not from its soil alone, but from all that comes of it.
http://biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0788.htm
Daryl, I think that the people on this blog would agree, perhaps way more than an emergent guy like myself, that the meaning of words is important.
I chose to point out that the creation is not fallen, but we are because there are ethical implications of either position.
If creation is fallen, then it deserves whatever it gets. It may get burned up, thrown away, destroyed, whatever--it earned it by falling.
With all due respect to Spurgeon, your quote did not convince me to change my mind from what you quoted from Paul's letter to the Romans. Creation WAS SUBJECTED--creation is a victim, with humanity, of human sin.
If creation suffers because of our sin, than we have a call particiapate in the God job gvve us at creation: to protect and restore creation.
Thanks again for these splendid pictures.
Makes you feel good to look at them.
And to read the Scriptures with them is the icing on the cake, (except for the last one).
fallen, maybe not. But cursed because of the fall...
As a result of sin, God cursed the ground. In Genesis 3:17–19, God says to Adam in the garden,
‘cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow you shall eat of it all the days of your life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee … In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread.’
from answersingenesis site
and when did God call us to "restore" creation?...
VcdeChagn, give me an email address and I'll see what I can do.
Dan, what is that stuff I see on the plate next to that slightly-too-well done piece of beef? Is that... don't make me say it... salad? Sacrilege!
Oh wait, I forgot. You're from California. Only us plainsmen know that there is meat, potatoes, and condiments. Nothing more needed. Including A1 or any other sauce for a good cut of meat properly cooked.
Interesting discussion on the falleness (or lack thereof) of creation. I think the Genesis and Romans passages are pretty clear that all of creation is corrupted and under a curse due to Adam's sin. Not because of our individual sinful acts (as in abusing creation) but as a result of the fall of Adam and mankind with him.
However, stating that creation is a "victim" in this corruption I think goes a bit too far. Attributing victimhood to creation seems to me to give a sense of personhood to creation, which is clearly not warranted and is implied nowhere Biblically.
Also agree that there is no Biblical mandate for man to restore creation (this is explicitly stated in Romans to be a result of Christ's conquering of sin and restoring the original created order at His return). There is however a mandate for man to be a steward of creation, to subject it to himself and manage it for his good and God's glory. Has mankind done this well? Probably not, but again, mankind is fallen and corrupted as well. But stewarding the creation, and restoring the creation, are two distinctly different things. One is man's responsibility from God, the other is God's responsibility exclusively.
Dan,
I have to take my hat off to you at the risk of exposing my bald spot. You are the only person I have seen thus far who can post lovely vacation photos and recount a near-idyllic time with your family and in so doing get a fight started over whether or not creation is cursed. How do you do it? Would you charge for a correspondence course?
As an aside to the above discussion, I am having a lot of fun wrapping my feeble mind around the notion of an Emergent being concerned over the meaning of words. If that's the case, I hope this condition spreads in pandemic fashion.
Dan,
Doulos pointed out the salad as well - it's not just me that thought it seemed a little out of place. :)
One time we friends got together for a bachelor party dinner at a rib place. All 15 of us got all-you-can-eat baby backs. The waiteress kept asking us if we wanted more, we told her to keep brining them out and we would tell her when to stop. 350 ribs later, we finished. My personal count was a paltry 25.
Why bring this up? Cause one guy had salad as one of his sides.
Really very beautiful pictures!
Hey, now! Everyone from Adam to pre-covenant Noah was commanded to only eat greens, and given what that noted horticulturalist Cain got up to, we can't accuse them of being a bunch of sissies. (Not that he's a role model, except for Lamech.)
That said, there's too much meat 'n' starch in my diet. V8's good for a manly vegetable fix, without going all soft and having a salad. [I have been known to make (whoops, did I say that?) and eat a mean Greek salad or two in my life, though....]
Maybe Cain had an iron and protein deficiency....
Doulos:
Agreed, mostly at least.
Victim implies personhood, just as fallen did. Both should be avoided. As it has been pointed out, cursed because of humankind's sin is good.
True enough, no call to restore, only to steward. Final restoration comes in Christ. I do believe, however, that to steward means to do our best in undoing the damage we've done, so there is an element of restoration.
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth"
(Genesis 1:28)
____________________________
Djp, As stewards, not dominionist-right??
all-for.etc.—Djp, As stewards, not dominionist-right??
Oh boy, you are trying to get me in trouble, aren't you?
On the one hand, I think the answer's too heavy to get into on a comment thread for a sort of Christian travelogue (as one called it in the previous meta, not unkindly). On the other, I don't know how I can give a satisfactory answer without getting into forbidden territory.
I guess I'll say that I think the urge to exercise dominion under God is part and parcel of the image of God in man, that the Fall complicated it rather than canceling it, that stewardship is an expression of it rather than a substitute for it, and theonomy is bunk, though many theonomists have been brilliant.
How's that?
solameanie—You are the only person I have seen thus far who can post lovely vacation photos and recount a near-idyllic time with your family and in so doing get a fight started over whether or not creation is cursed. How do you do it? Would you charge for a correspondence course?
Thanks for the badly-needed chuckle. Yes, it is a gift. I don't know whether it can be taught, though.
As an aside, it's funny. You know, I went over that first picture, and over it, trying to see if there was anything in it that anyone could conceivably object to. I couldn't see a thing.
But....
Salad!
<< forehead slap >>
You might have estranged your British readers by not using HP sauce.
And good thing we're not under the Law, or there could be an issue with that juicy steak on the same plate as the cream-based salad dressing.
Dan,
Sorry, not my intention to pass out pickles to Pyros.
re: How's that?
Stand-up triple (only God goes yard) :)
Coincidentally, going into "country" this w/end. I often fail to fully appreciate it. Thanks for the wake up call.
It's been 7 years since I've lived near or been in the mountains (Rockies in Alberta). Those pic's sure do make me miss 'em.
You clearly had a wonderful time.
Thanks for letting us peek in.
to steward means to do our best in undoing the damage we've done, so there is an element of restoration.
What can man possibly do to restore the damage we've done to the creation? Drew, this sounds like more man-centeredness to me.
And I don't know about calling creation a victim. Are we victims of Adam's original sin? I don't see it that way. I think we're deserving recipients of original sin.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Creation WAS SUBJECTED--creation is a victim, with humanity, of human sin.
Disagreed. The creation was subjected to futility, sure... but by what/whom? Not by humans. Not by sin. It was subjected "by HIM..." -- GOD. It's not sin that subjected creation to futility, because sin could not subject creation to futility in HOPE of its freedom of slavery. Only God could do that.
So then creation can't properly be called a victim, even if I call it fallen, because God has not victimized creation any more than He victimized Adam... or me because of Adam's sin.
If creation suffers because of our sin,
We've just established that it doesn't.
then we have a call participate in the God job gave us at creation: to protect and restore creation.
I might just be being sloppy, but I don't see ANY decree for man to restore creation. If I'm not being sloppy, and there is no such command, I would say that it borders on blasphemy to say that it's so. The renewal of all things comes at Christ's return. What in the world could we possibly restore? Maybe this isn't great for 'communication,' but I can't imagine how we could even think that we could do anything to restore the creation.
If we wanna argue over 'fallen' vs. 'cursed'... well, first, I wonder why. If you feel more comfortable saying cursed, that's fine with me. But calling it fallen in no way makes creation a victim, as I've shown above.
"Well, except you know the rule: if you can see the trout, the trout can see you."
Only a real fisherman would know that! :thumbsup:
This is WAY off topic, but I couldn't resist.
Phil, it's great to see my Padres helped your Cubs to clich their division title tonight.
Dan. Actually a friend and I were going to hike sorta down that way, more towards Bridgeport, but guess what it is doing tonight? Snowing! Yep.
Love the photo of the lake.
Mike: What can man possibly do to restore the damage we've done to the creation? Drew, this sounds like more man-centeredness to me.
I don't think that doing a job that God commands us to do is "man-centeredness."
What can we possilby do? I think we both know the answers, but if you really need some suggestions on how we can be good stewards, let me know.
Please note, I already answered your concerns about the "victimhood" of creation, and that thile there is a lack of a clear call to "restore," creation, it is implied in the fact that
a. we care called to be stewards, and
b. we've done damgage, with the caveat that,
c. Only by the grace of God can we participate in said work, and only in the fullness of time will it be completed, not by us, but by God.
Overall, Dan has already said it pretty darn well (a stand-up triple, right?--I'm a Pirate fan, so I am not used to such things)
I still believe that creations' problems ("suffering" might be a bad word because of the anthropomorphizing tendancy of it) are a result of our sin. No human fall, no curse, right? Of course the curse came from God, but it came as a result of our choices.
Of course, this makes God reactionary, which is a problem for reformed folk like me, but its not the only time that God seems to react to human action in the Bible.
I don't think that doing a job that God commands us to do is "man-centeredness."
while there is a lack of a clear call to "restore," creation...
God commands us to do it, but without a clear call. If you're going to say that God commands us to do something, I think you should show me that command.
What can we possibly do? I think we both know the answers, but if you really need some suggestions on how we can be good stewards, let me know.
Being good stewards and restoring the creation are two entirely different things.
Please note, I already answered your concerns about the "victimhood" of creation,
LoL. No you didn't. You made the statement that creation was a victim of our sin. I think I demonstrated how it is improper to say that creation is a victim of our sin, thereby at least implying that I didn't buy your 'answers to my concerns.' I don't know if I've ever replied to an argument I saw was lacking, and have the person reply by telling me that the actual argument I'm seeing as lacking is a sufficient answer.
and that while there is a lack of a clear call to "restore," creation, it is implied in the fact that
a. we care called to be stewards, and
This would be insufficient to make that leap without any other aid. That's why you say, "and..."
b. we've done damage,
This is begging the question Drew. This is the point of contention. You have to prove this, not just assume it. It's been my contention that Adam's fall didn't victimize the creation anymore than Adam's fall victimized me.
The last point didn't contribute to the "implied command." It was just a stipulation. So as far as I see it, you've got that we're stewards, and that's it.
I still believe that creations' problems are a result of our sin. No human fall, no curse, right? Of course the curse came from God, but it came as a result of our choices.
Of course, this makes God reactionary, which is a problem for reformed folk like me, but its not the only time that God seems to react to human action in the Bible.
You refuted your own argument at least twice there. You make God reactionary, but dismiss it because of what seems to be?
We're reaching another impasse, Drew. You and I seem to be quite good at that. Personally, I think we owe that to ignoring definitions and making assumptions when things need to be proven.
This entire conversation is ridiculous, considering Dan's post and even considering my first comment. Add that to the fact that you refuse to make the argument for your position, and that you remain inconsistent with your own self-confessed reformed theology, and this is going nowhere fast.
I apologize, Dan, for spawning this. It certainly was not my intention. I was trying to enjoy creation with you. But in my own pride I have gone from the desire to make much of God by an observation of the beauty of creation to trying to prove a point. I seem to be the king of getting off topic.
I went kind of a different direction with your original comment, I think, Mike.
I was thinking that, if this is creation still subjected to bondage, and groaning and travailing — and even so, it is so glorious, and so glorifies God... what is redeemed creation going to be like? Overwhelming.
That's a great direction, too, Dan! These are great meditations...
Dan: Wow.
...to your last comment.
I am all for being a good steward of God's creation, but if that means joining hands in worship of Earth Mother Gaia, count me out.
That's the problem with today's environmentalism -- many of the people who push it are using it as a tool to accomplish another agenda. One agenda is spiritual and linked with Eastern mysticism, and the other is political. They never met a radical, socialist solution they didn't like. To the former, the planet would be better off if millions of people would die. To the latter, an environmental panic is just the next crisis du jour to increase governmental control.
Actually, there's a third element to this also. Well meaning Christians get caught up in issues like this at the expense of the Gospel. The same thing can happen with politics. No one is saying not to be concerned with the environment, and no one is saying not to be involved as good citizens on a political level. But these issues cannot be allowed to consume our attention to the point where the Gospel is downgraded in importance. If you change hearts and lives through the power of the Gospel, you'd be amazed at the ripple effects in society.
Good points Mr. Meanie,
It is difficult to avoid throwing your hands in the air (now there's a visual...) and saying forget all of you "I'll put all my junk in the landfill anyways". Sometimes I think we're all better of completely ignoring all the Envior-blather and figuring out stewardship on our own. It's just too easy to get caught up in the "HELP WE'RE KILLING THE PLANET" hype otherwise.
Great pic's Dan. Your're making me miss the mountains.
I lecture my sons on MY style of environmentalism every time we see some idiot's beer can sparkling up at us from the bottom of a crystalline lake. I tell them that, barring intervention, that beer can will be there until Jesus comes back. Also pretty unsparing about every idiot who can't find the strength to carry out his own potato chip bag, or plastic items.
They seem to be growing up to share my attitude about that; and that's a good thing.
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