14 August 2012

Charismatic lexicon - Part One

by Dan Phillips

In the interests of communication and instruction, and because I'm here to help, I offer this lexicon. I'm calling it Part One because (A) I'm sure there'll be more, because (B) I'm pretty sure readers will supply some great stuff that (C) I will steal, publish here, and claim as my own.

First, then: the term as used by a Biblically-oriented Christian (BibC); then the Leaky Canon Charismatic equivalent (LC2). I paint, as I must, with a broad brush... but not that broad.

BibC: Culmination of millennia of revelation in a completed, wholly sufficient and closed Canon
LC2: Whatever. (Alternate: And then that happened...)

BibC: Feeling.
LC2: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Hunch.
LC2: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Silly passing thought.
LC2: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Impulse, best to be rejected after a bit of wise and critical reflection.
LC: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Testing by Scripture and rational examination.
LC2: Unbelief.

BibC: Walking in gracious, faith-driven obedience, which definitionally and consciously rests on the written Word alone.
LC2: Deism.

BibC: Living impulsively and irresponsibly, eschewing Biblical analysis and responsible decision-making, and blaming the whole mess on God.
LC2: Moving in the Spirit.

BibC: Undocumented anecdote allegedly done in a corner thousands of miles away and transmitted through the world's longest game of "telephone."
LC2: Proof that "the gifts" continue.

BibC: The undeniable absence of substantiated and globally-accepted claims to revelatory/attesting gifts among the Biblically orthodox from the first century until 1906.
LC2: "The man behind the curtain." (Alternate: "Look! A comet!")

BibC: The undeniable fact that modern instances of substantiated and globally-accepted claims to revelatory/attesting gifts among the Biblically orthodox depends on drastic reinterpretation of Scripture and playing fast and loose with the laws of evidence.
LC: (See above)

BibC: Prophecy is an explicitly Biblically-defined phenomenon in which God gives inerrant, binding, direct revelation to someone and assures that it is communicated as such. It is objectively verifiable.
LC2: Whatever you say it is. Except not verifiable or falsifiable.

BibC: Insisting on redefining the Biblical teaching about and descriptions of revelatory and attesting gifts so as to smuggle pale imitations into a time-frame some twenty centuries after their disappearance.
LC2: Non-negotiable essentials.

BibC: Affirming the all-over-the-Bible teaching of the sovereignty of God in salvation.
LC2: Totally negotiable, relatively minor.

...and one reverse:

LC2: A divine healing that undeniably proves all charismatic claims.
BibC: Answered prayer, God healing — which all Christians have always confirmed and distinguished from the gift of healing.

UPDATE: Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio had a lot of very creative, hysterical fun with this.

Dan Phillips's signature


107 comments:

Nicholas said...

It would be helpful for me if you were to list some of the charismatic "gifts," explain your definitions, and describe in what capacity (if any) that gift continues. Some examples would be:

Prophesy: If a prophet is one who speaks inerrant word of God, then this gift has stopped. On the other hand, if the prophet is a "mouthpiece" of God, in a limited sense it may apply to anyone who reads scriptures with discernment at a given time with an eye toward a particular situation.

Healing: As you already mentioned, there may not be any "healers" today, but healing continues in a limited sense as you describe.

I could easily imagine a series of blog posts, each describing one gift in detail with lots of scripture. It may even become a popular apologetic resource for relating to modern charismatics.

Like I said, this would be very helpful for me, even though it would require some time and thoughtfulness on your part. Even though I agree with much of what you say, I find the tone of many of these articles to be mocking and condescending - hardly something I can use in discussions with other charismatics.

Pierre Saikaley said...

BibC: Pastor who wisely exposes & corrects strange charasmatic doctrine

LC2: Heresy Hunter!

Benjamin Nitu said...

Your post reminded me of Carl FH Henry: "Not only the apostate abandonment of revelation as the basic Christian axiom in epistemology, but weak and fallacious views of divine revelation as well, needlessly obscure the truth of evangelical theism. The truth of revelation is dimmed also by an unbelief in the authority and reliability of Scripture, since this dilutes God's Word and speech"

Cathy said...

Dan- I think you have been watching too much "Shark Week"
:-)

donsands said...

Good stuff.

You know, it's posts like these that really help merejoice in the Bible.
I mean, what a precious, precious gift we have.
God gave us The Book; His truth; His words written down.
And of course, He comes to us, through the Spirit of God, and enlightens our hearts and minds, and does fill us with His peace and joy, through His Truth.


The devils in this world surely hate The Scriptures, where one small word will "fell them".

Thanks for the post.

Cathy said...

BibC- Opens Bible, reads it. Knows God is speaking to him through His Word.
LC2- "putting God in a box"

LC2- closes Bibles, waits to hear still small voice of God.
BibC- "vain imaginations"

Frank Turk said...

That will leave a mark, I think.

LanternBright said...

BibC: passing out because you've been standing with locked knees for the last twenty minutes

LC2: getting slain in the spirit

Jeremiah Greenwell said...

It has well been said:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:38-42

Considering it was for the preaching of Jonah that Nineveh repented and for the wisdom of Solomon that the queen of the South came to hear (both of which have been recorded for us in something we call the bible) I'm thinking this obsession with signs isn't exactly the best thing to claim. Whatever else can be said, they miss the key point of the gospel, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and exchange it to seek after some hidden knowledge.

God doesn't show Himself real by miracles and signs, He reveals Himself by His word. This is what Christ taught and all the Prophets before Him:

"To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Isaiah 8:20

It's not hard to understand, it's just a very dangerous belief to hold, and one that needs ridiculous comparisons like this to show it as pitiful as it truly is.

Nicholas said...

It's strange to see so many people singing the praises of scripture, all the while ignoring those verses about "correcting your opponents with gentleness," (2Ti 2) and "speaking the truth in love" (Eph 4).

Perhaps all of this is in jest, but I for one am grateful that God doesn't mock me on the many occasions when I'm wrong. I really think we've passed the point of witty here and are dangerously close to sinning against other Christians. Given that teachers are judged more strictly, and that many who post here are in the ministry, it's hard to imagine anyone receiving a "well done" for this type of discussion.

threegirldad said...

Nicholas wrote:

It would be helpful for me if you were to list some of the charismatic "gifts," explain your definitions...

In this series of posts, Dan does exactly that re: Prophecy. You'll want to scroll to the bottom and work your way up in order to read them in sequence.

donsands said...

Hey Nicholas,

This is good hearted ways of sharing the bottom line of truth. And yet, are we at the same time not as loving and gentle as we need to be?
Yes. I admit I can be a bit too hard. And there are times when the hard truth is needed, and God has spoken to us in His word with hard truth, don't you admit?

The bottom line is for us all to understand how the truth of God is received, and lived out in this age.
If we can bring it out in any way, it is well worth it.

I have Charismatic brothers in my life, and we have some friction at times.
He may even say to me, "You are mocking!"
I say back, "No." But, I love you brother.

And hopefully we both grow in the truth and love of Christ.

DJP said...

Nicholas, I think we got it. You don't like the tone. See? There y'go. You're on-record. You want to complain (twice so far) about the-post-that-is, and at the same time put in an order for other research projects for me. Got it.

Meanwhile, it's OK if people actually interact with the actual contents of this actual post. Let them. Do something else. Have a nice day.

James Kime said...

Nicholas, Jesus and Paul both used sarcasm. If that offends you, change.

Great post Dan. I was sad I was laughing because it is true.

DJP said...

...to say nothing of Solomon in Proverbs, a book of which I'm rather fond.

Thanks, James!

Bill said...

Nicholas
Good morning. A very good work on this subject is "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur, I cannot recommend it enough, please give it a read. Any perceived snarkiness has a place, for it is usually the other way around. The charismatic folk often look down upon those who “just need a filling” of the Holy Spirit i.e. the non-charismatic folk.

Jay Beerley said...

As I read through this, I was thinking of many of the conversations I've had with guys I went to school with, many of whom have ended up on the wrong side of the isle when it comes to views of Scripture. They're not "charismatics" per se in their denomination affiliation, but you have excellently captured their attitude about their feelings over the truth. The Emergents (if they even call themselves that any more) may not bother with the labels and ideas of the inconsistent cessationists but they most certainly (maybe unknowingly) view themselves as prophets.

Rhology said...

BibC: "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment" (1 Cor 14:29)
LC2: This man has gotten 20% of his prophecies right! He has the gift of prophecy!

Tom said...

Interesting lexicon. I'm waiting for this one:

LC: God told me about x action that person y did and it was true (aka Spurgeon).
Sensei: Oh, we call that "extra-ordinary providence" because to actually admit God tells people things outside of written Scripture would destroy our entire argument. Consequently, we just change the terms and tell people to move along, nothing to see here.

Frank Rue said...

Well written. How would you quip the following type of interaction, since it relates:

"I can't afford thus-and-such, but I'm *believing* for God to do a miracle, so I'm going to buy it on credit because God will bring the provision. I call this having faith."

I call that "blurring the line between faith and stupidity".

This isn't, of course, addressing a gift, per se, but it is part of the name-it-and-claim-it, positive confession, and even includes the mistaken belief that one can have a "tremendous 'gift' of faith".

Kerry James Allen said...

BibC-Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead...Matthew 10:8
LC2-Sorry, that was three separate and distinct gifts.

DJP said...

Tom, you've been warned a number of times, and gone well past the ban-limit.

You now have three choices:

1. Cite the specific passage where Spurgeon claims to posses one of the revelatory/attesting gifts in the New Testament and tells a story to illustrate that all gifts continue exactly as in NT times OR redefines them all to affirm that they continue (the topic under discussion); or

2. Admit this has nothing to do with the topic under discussion and has been adequately answered more than once, and drop it; or

3. Be banned.

DJP said...

Frank, that's a bit off-topic, but briefly (A) I'd probably go to Gen. 15:1-6 and Rom. 10:17 to underscore that Biblical faith is a response to a discrete word from God, (B) observe that he has no such word from God, and (C) explain the difference between faith (which he isn't exercising) and presumption (which he is).

Kerry James Allen said...

"We never need to enlarge a topic beyond what Scripture says." Spurgeon

Nash Equilibrium said...

Glad you threw that last one in there, Dan.
I recently heard a "reverse" of "Undocumented anecdote allegedly done in a corner thousands of miles away..." from a missionary to Nepal, which illustrates both your final entry in the Lexicon and the one listed above:

People in this missionary's remote mountain village contracted a disease which despite prayer, they were not healed of. As a result of God not granting a miraculous healing, the missionary had to carry them in his arms, one by one down the mountain to receive medical help.

All the time of course, he's wondering "why no healings?"

When he gets back from doing this difficult task, the local Buddhist monks asked him about Jesus, because they said they would never have done something that difficult for their people!

So in this case, God used a lack of miracles to demonstrate his love, rather than a miracle of healing.

Good thing in this case that this particular missionary didn't have the "gift" of healing, or he would have totally fouled up God's plan to display something even greater - love - to the Buddhists!

DJP said...

Nash, you're right to point out that this is just a counter-anecdote. But I'd just attempt to tag one thought on to it:

The one kind of anecdote is used to try to paper over nearly TWO THOUSAND YEARS that attest that the Biblical prophecy that revelatory gifts would cease has been fulfilled, and is used to try to get people running discontentedly in desperate and distracted pursuit of such always-just-around-the-corner occurrences.

The other (yours) illustrates at least what might happen if one actually does what Scripture actually says to do: show Christ's kind of sacrificial love in His name.

Frank Rue said...

DJP - Thanks—sorry for the off-topicness. In other news:

BibC: The bible clearly states X about Y.
LC2: Legalist!

Jules said...

BibC: Culmination of millennia of revelation in a completed, wholly sufficient and closed Canon.
LC2: Quenching the Spirit.

BibC: Testing by Scripture and rational examination.
LC2: Pharaseeism.

BibC: Walking in gracious, faith-driven obedience, which definitionally and consciously rests on the written Word alone.
LC2: Worshipping a book.

Frank Turk said...

I want to object at this point to this post being on-track to have a comment thread longer than the one under my offering into the genre of "letters to my gay son."

DJP said...

Oh oh oh, Jules, particularly that last one. Good point. Some form of that must go on the list. In fact, I'm go... nah, I'll resist re-editing, and put it on the next.

I think my version will be:

BibC: Giving God's Word the place the Holy Spirit says it should be given in the believer's thinking and living.
LC2: Worshiping a book.

Thank you!

Tom Chantry said...

Frank, your protest and the counter-protests it draws will certainly push this thread over the edge.

DJP said...

In spite of my efforts, as you know, Frank. I've touted that one all over the place up to this very day.

You're probably half-kidding, but since it's you I'll just take this opportunity to say it's a sad testimony to the disservice some elitist bloggers do to their readers, because of their apparent decision to blacklist this blog. Out of apparent spite, they keep some great stuff from doing the good it otherwise should — and yours is a stellar piece.

Jules said...

You're welcome, DJP. I wish I could say that response had not come from years of personal experience :(

DJP said...

Jules, that's just it. I think that folks who would object too strenuously to the "tone" of this post just haven't really tried to help Charismatics.

Look, I really truly believe the Bible's witness that there isn't just one way to respond to error. There's ridicule and mockery and warning and scorn — those are absolutely directly Biblical methods. And there's patient and gracious and long-suffering repeated explanations.

My observation is that an OVER-abundance of the latter has led to an OVER-prevalence of this harmful approach to faith and life. It's been allowed a respectability that it does not deserve, and that is harmful.

I'm gathering that John MacArthur is feeling similarly, and thus is coming out with a brand-new attempt.

DJP said...

Two happy thoughts:

1. We've had some terrific additions... and Trogdor hasn't even dropped by yet!

2. I'm working on a Hither and Thither for my place this Friday.

So, you know... life is good!

Robert said...

BibC: God warned me about dreamers (people telling people about revelation from dreams/visions) coming to tear the Church apart in the Epistle of Jude."

LC2: "That's just your interpretation. The truth is that it is just talking about people like John Lennon (You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one)."

Frank Turk said...

As long as there is H&T on Friday, I can live to fight another day.

DJP said...

Hope, healing and hilarity.

I haz dem.

Bill said...

Dan/Frank,
Maybe there is a charismatic out there that claims to” heal” gay sons. Both threads could greatly benefit (for those (im)possibly offended, this was an obvious tongue in cheek post).

Tom said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kerry James Allen said...

Tom, I know a little about Spurgeon (having read about 50,000 pages worth), and I suppose I would have to say, since when do we base our theology strictly on Spurgeon? He also believed in the Gap Theory, that other planets were inhabited by aliens (repeated several times) and in some places believed Christ's blood was transported to Heaven and in another place believed it was left on Earth. You are correct in saying that he occasionally spoke directly to someone in a scenario that indicated something had been revealed to him, but so what? The fact that it was an exception doesn't prove what the charismatics say is now the rule.
I would say God uniquely used the man in ways He doesn't use most of us today. God also appeared to Solomon twice in dreams, but again, so what? And I think if Spurgeon knew that what he related would be used as a "proof" of prophecy and the wild fire that is in vogue today, he would never have related it.

Cathy said...

BibC: Sola Scriptura
LC2: Bibliolatry

Chris H said...

I'm glad of the inclusion of the last one. Too often "we" get accused of denying miraculous healing, reported by credible sources. It's vital to help people see the distinction.

Tom Chantry said...

BibC: Telling a guy with a vague, indefineable ache that he ought to feel better.
LC2: The precise equivelant of Jesus healing lepers.

BibC: Migraine headaches
LC2:Demons

BibC: Agabus
LC2: The Barney Fife of New Testament Prophets - you gotta respect the badge even though he rarely got anything right.

P.S. - Dan, quit doing the fun topics on Tuesdays when I can rarely get to a computer!

Joel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Rhology said...

LCC - Benny Hinn is a slightly eccentric brother leading Heaven to Earth. Calvinists think that God can save the heathen quite without anyone's help.

Rob said...

Hey Dan,

Reading through the list, I'm curious where Hudson Taylor would fit into this mold, when he stated hearing God direct him to "go for me to China."
'Feeling'? 'Hunch'? Or 'silly passing thought'?

Considering how God used Hudson in such an epic way, I'm curious which of the LC2's would fit him.

thanks

Rhology said...

Rob,

I'd vote for "Matthew 28:19-20".

Nash Equilibrium said...

BibC: I'm just shaking my head listening to a nutjob pastor from a northwestern state who thinks he can "see" the video sins of various people he's counseling.

LC2: Now there's an anointed guy we'd better be listening to more of!

Frank Turk said...

One of the things about this blog is that usually the rest of us writing here can see a post or a series of posts coming from the normal course of stuff happening to the other(s) writing here, and we can be prepared to batten down the hatches or whatever.

These current posts are coming out of nowhere. And I love it.

Brendt said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bill said...

Brent
Is your middle name Nicholas per chance? Tongue in cheek v2.

Brendt said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mark Edwards said...

"BibC: Walking in gracious, faith-driven obedience, which definitionally and consciously rests on the written Word alone.
LC2: Deism."

For all the Charismatics I know,"obedience" is re-defined as "literalism." :)

Nash Equilibrium said...

BibC: "Rightly dividing the Word of truth"
LC2: Imaginatively interpreting tongues?

Rhology said...

BibC: Wasting time by babbling gibberish into the microphone.
LCC: awkward silence

DJP said...

Joel - banned.

DJP said...

Tom - banned.

Robert said...

BibC: Why don't you read the Bible and follow Scripture as your authority instead of looking for signs?

LC2: I'm too busy doing something like ministry!

LC2: God has shown me that He wants me to leave my spouse and children and marry another person. I just feels right.

BibC: The Bible says that God hates divorce and only allows for it because of infidelity or abandonment by an unbelieving spouse.

DJP said...

Brendt - banned.

Rhology said...

DJP said...

Frank Turk - banned.


FINALLY!

DebbieLynne said...

As an ex-Charismatic, I can attest to Dan's accuracy...as well as others of you. Thanks for reminding me why I found it so incompatible with the Word of God.

DJP said...

Oh no; he's a menace, and must be proliferated.

Robert said...

Wow, DJP with the hat trick. Sorry that it's been so bad today. It is quite amazing to me because you are so gracious to the commenters and it is taken for granted and quite unappreciated how much you put up with.

Rhology said...

Frank Turk - proliferated!

Kerry James Allen said...

BibC-"Banned"
LC2-"Don't you judge me!"

Lockheed said...

(Actually said to me by someone close to me.)

BibC - "But Scripture says..."
LC2 - "The letter kills but the Spirit gives life!"


BibC - "Why are you looking for additional words from God when you haven't even finished reading your Bible?"
LC2 - "Jerk!"

DJP said...

Lockheed, thanks; that first was actually the focus of NEXT! #15.

Nash Equilibrium said...

Here's one I actually ran into in my charismatic days:

BibC: The Bible says that's not true.
LCC: But I know that I know!

donsands said...

Rob,
Hudson Taylor was an incredible evangelist of our Lord.

He said: "We are not even to come just to the Word of God: rather, we are to go through that Word to the person of the Lord Jesus Himself."

I believe we can all learn from him.
And yet, he was just a human like us all, and capable of error.
Evene the Apostle Peter fell into error.

We need to remember this most of all.

We error.
The Word is errorless.

Trust in the Word
Don't trust in yourself.

I think Hudson would agree.

That's my two cents worth on Hudson Taylor.

APM said...

Dan-

Did you grow up in Calvary Chapel?

DJP said...

No, APM; I attended CC Saturday night concerts in the early/mid seventies after I was saved, and some CC meetings over the years, but never have been a regular.

APM said...

Ahh. Its like you know all the leaky secrets.

Some of your parings were quotes from actual conversations I've had.

I've always suspected you were a spy.

DJP said...

LOL. Well, you didn't ask if I'd attended Charismatic meetings and/or churches, and that I have.

Tom Chantry said...

BibC-"Banned"
LC2-"Don't you judge me!"


KJ for the win!!!!!

trogdor said...

BC: I've carefully considered the various options, and this sounds like a good idea
LCC: God told me!
LCC2: God is leading me to...
LCC3: I have a vision...
LCC4: I have examined the evidence carefully, thought about it, sought consel, and decided on the best course of action. Ha! Just kidding! No really, God told me.

BC: I don't think that's a very good idea
LCC: TOUCH NOT THE LORD'S ANOINTED!!1!

LCC: Fallible prophecy
BC: Ha! Good one! Wait... wah? You - you're serious? You're actually serious?! I just don't know what to say, except "Lord, have mercy!"

LCC: Secret prayer language of angels
BC: Gibberish

BC: New covenant - an unspeakably great blessing wherein the old covenant is declared obsolete and replaced by something which is greater in every way
LCC: New covenant - an unspeakably great blessing wherein the old covenant is declared obsolete and replaced by something which is greater in every way - except prophecy, which suddenly became fallible and laughably tragic

BC: Sinfully irresponsible
LCC: Stepping out in faith

Rhology said...

BC: I don't think that's a very good idea
LCC: TOUCH NOT THE LORD'S ANOINTED!!1!


This one made me laugh out loud.

Frank Turk said...

BC: Trogdor
LC2: HATER!!!!!!

Frank Turk said...

Rho: there's a Hitler Rants video about that, isn't there?

Rhology said...

there's a Hitler Rants video about that, isn't there?

Probably, though I believe this statement is true of virtually any topic in the universe.

DJP said...

My PAMs (posts-and-metas) fall into two broad categories:

1. PAMs where Trogdor makes no comment; and

2. Excellent PAMs.

Jules said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jules said...

I would be laughing out loud at Trogdor's additions...if they weren't 100% accurate.

Kerry James Allen said...

DJP and Frank, this stuff is so good you simply must cut and paste it all together into a brief systematic theology for charismatics. We'll call it "God told us to do this!"

Geoff said...

BCC: "For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear" (Ecc. 5:7)
LC2: "Nun-uh!"

Jeremiah Greenwell said...

BibC: My stomach kinda hurts...
LC2: God must be telling me something!

BibC: Sometimes I get sinful impulses to completely interrupt a service for my own vain glory.
LC2: "Thus saith the Lord:"

BibC: I don't care for that "worship" song.
LC2: There has to be something demonic in this song.
Or
God must be dealing with some hidden sin in my life.

Matt Kleinhans said...

They have seen false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘Declares the LORD,’ when the LORD has not sent them, and yet they expect him to fulfill their word. Have you not seen a false vision and uttered a lying divination, whenever you have said, ‘Declares the LORD,’ although I have not spoken?”
(Ezekiel 13:6-7 ESV)

Striking, humbling, terrifying, and a verse that always draws me back to drink from the deep well that is God's true Word. God will fulfill His Word, not "their" word.

Andrea said...

BibC: A clear and unequivocal statement of differences between a world view based on the bible and one that elevates human feelings above clear scriptural revelation, which also happens to use humor to expose the folly of the latter mindset.

LC2: A reckless display of uncharitable divisiveness, devoid of gentleness and respect.

Solameanie said...

And for clarity's sake, there's more than one Joel. This one isn't banned. At least not yet, and that will probably be for a joke that draws more than the usual groans.

Linda said...

Lc2-You are an "accuser of the bretheren"

BibC-"Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth"

BibC-People like Benny Hinn are false prophets because he's made prophecies that have not come to pass. So according to Deut.18:22 "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

Lc2-The Bible says, 'Touch not Mine anointed, and do My prophets no harm' (Ps. 105:15).

BibC- Jesus said "have faith in God"-Mark 11:22

LC2-"Jesus said if you have faith as small as a mustard seed"


BibC-1Ti 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely.

LC2-We are beating each other up with doctrine,, just follow Jesus and stop being an armchair critic

sean patrick said...

This is the worst treatment of this topic I've ever seen. The level of judgment is vile (but you have already armored yourself against "tone" arguments, I know...).




DJP said...

BibC: So let's apply a little Biblically-accurate satire to this harmful teaching, making sure each point is a carefully-chosen direct hit.

LC2: Worst treatment of this topic I've ever seen! Vilely judgmental!

Five Solas said...

Great post here, Dan. Your posts on Sola Scriptura are always excellent.

Your next book project should be on Sola Scriptura, addressing things like Da Gifts, God's will, etc.

Chris H said...

@sean patrick: Do you have a blog where we can go and see how this topic should have been treated? Your profile is not shared publicly, so we can't get your side of things.

Tom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhology said...

FWIW, a one-time prophecy occurred ≠ the gift of prophecy is still being given.

DJP said...

5 solas — that is a topic much on my heart. It'd be a good and challenging topic: how a robust doctrine of sola scriptura should have impact on thought, life, preaching and teaching.

(Sounds like a subtitle, eh?)

Anyone who ever wants to see another book by me, however, could help by bringing my first two books to the attention of high-visibility opinion-forming leaders.

Just sayin'.

pnissila said...

I'm still laughing! What a great use of humor to make many points. My sister actually experienced a charismatic pastor tell her she'd better watch out (when she questioned one of his non-Scriptural views) lest in so doing she'd "touch the apple of God's eye" (meaning himself).
BibC: "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought" (Romans 12:3)
LC2: Called of God

Unknown said...

I was baptized Assemblies of God in 1992, but now a Reformed believer and self-described "recovering Pentecostal" (a phase I use oft to "out" the hidden charismaniancs that might be present in a conversation). So let me assure you that you all have NOT gone too far in this satire. In fact, much of it is sadly accurate. Full blown Pentecostalism is little more than neo-Gnostic superstitionism peppered with enough verses to dupe the masses. Much of the reason Pentecostalism is now mainstream is precisely because it has an entire language around which to wrap its deceptive teachings. I get addled when I hear these same phrases uttered thoughtlessly as normal Christian language. I tried to laugh at this post, but, from my experience, it's sadly true. Anyone upset at this probably doth protesteth too much!

DJP said...

Check the update at the bottom of the post.

Oh, and... 100.

Rhology said...

Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio had a lot of very creative, hysterical fun with this.

But...but...but...he's a Lutheran!

DJP said...

Yeah, but if it's 5:45, it's 5:45.

(c:

Santo said...

All good satire has more than an element of truth to it. As a holder to the doctrines of grace fellowshipping in charismatic circles (long story, don't ask please lol) this is almost an exact picture of my Sunday mornings. I tweeted something along the lines of “that awkward moment when you quote scripture instead of a vision at a Pentecostal mens meeting” after a “bible” study that studied everything but the bible a few months ago, as a level of my disgust and frustrations with how the wolves are consuming the flock. There's a time for patient, loving discourse and a time for the iron fist in a velvet glove. I pray we are able to know the time for either one.

Richard Cheesman said...

I'm in the same boat as Santo and 'Unknown' - I was pulled into a Charismatic Church at the young impressionable age of 21, now 16 years later I've finally reformed, discovering the 5 solas, the reformation, true church history, etc. None of this has been taught in our church, and as much as I long to leave to find another, there is none locally.

Anyway - one from the LC2 side, and I hear this quite often:

LC2: God is doing a new thing, we don't need all that church history.

BibC: So, you'd reject the book of Acts too?

jazzact13 said...

BibC: Going into churches and asking people to donate money to you as you go around "taking the world for Jesus!!!".

LC2: Living by faith and being ruined for the ordinary (so long as the ordinary people give me their money). Also, see YWAM and similar organizations.

BibC: Mindlessly singing the same songs over and over while jerking and twitching.

LC2: Being raw and real in worship, unlike you liturgical folk who sing songs that require actual thought.

TulipGirl said...

"I would be laughing out loud at Trogdor's additions...if they weren't 100% accurate."

*laughtears*


"BibC: My stomach kinda hurts...
LC2: God must be telling me something!"

Yeah... seriously. I remember a pastor telling this story about ants around his house (in Texas! We have ants!) and ending the story with, "What is God trying to tell me through these ants?"

*banghead*

Yeah, okay, so I was attending a goofy church. I knew something was off, but too young/immature to know what. I'm just thankful that my parents and pastors always emphasized the importance of returning to Scripture, comparing things to the Bible. . . (Even if they did that imperfectly themselves.)

debbie said...

i was raised as a charismatic and this post was more revelation to me as I learn more about sola scriptura. I don't think the tone was too bad but some people's responses are sort of obnoxious on here. Sorry just had to say it. I've been in the presence of people being corrected by others in the faith and I guess it's a first hearing people say "Jesus did it too so get over it" Very interesting...anyway, great post and God bless...