21 December 2010
What did Jesus (not) say about... His mother, Mary?
by Dan Phillips
"You know what you lot's problem is? You just don't think enough about My mother."
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41 comments:
I'm not sure but I think there's a problem with the sentence structure on this post.
Bold. I like it.
Was that English?
Ouch!
No idea what Michael and Jim are talking about, unless you're unfamiliar with the idiom "you lot" = "the bunch of you, the lot of you." May be a bit British, but I don't think they own it, do they? Would you have preferred "Y'all's" or "Youses'"? You may paraphrase in your head if you like, if that's what you need.
Stirring the pot again, Dan? You're going to upset Pope Benedict. ;)
You lot are the kind what cause unrest.
Dan is trolling for Lutheran apologetic madness, obviously.
I prefer "youse guys's". :-D
Or the emphatic 'all y'all's."
Actually, Frank, it appears I'm trolling for literary critics. (c;
What's the over/under on comments about the post's syntax?
I thought Jesus was always clear:
He said "you" when addressing more than one person in the nominative case, "ye" when addressing more than one person in the objective case, "thou" when addressing only one person in the nominative case, and "thee" when addressing only one person in the objective case.
Thou needs to get it straight, yo.
Well, there y'go.
I thought Lot was Abram's nephew.
I would have put it as "You know the problem with you lot?" but that would be picky. Looking forward to further thoughts on this, it's pertinent to me atm.
"And here are some vitally important, infallible things about my mom that I want you to know. Just don't write them down, but pass them along orally... what, Peter? .... Yeah, like a tradition. You can codify them in, oh, 17 or 18 centuries. They'll be dogma then. "
BTW, I should have said: I plan to follow up with the accompanying full post on Thursday.
See?
Christmasy.
The Holy Spirit gave us this tremendous gift through Luke:
11:27-28 As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
How simply brilliant of Him, no? Almost as if He knew beforehand that there would be these sorts of problems.... ;)
I think you're absolutely right, Barbara. It is eerily prescient — and all the more makes one boggle that so many thousands would go on and so venerate the mother.
"You may paraphrase in your head if you like, if that's what you need"
How relevant of you!
I try to be accommodating without being accommodationist.
While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." - Matt. 12:46-50
I knew a Pentecostal who told me he had heard some preacher say Catholics went too far in venerating Mary, but Protestants were unkind to the mother of our Lord.
I asked him in what way Protestants were unkind to Mary, but he could not think of any way at all. But he still thought this preacher must be right.
I will strike the perfect balance on Thursday.
Or, you know, something.
Being from Western PA, I have to weigh in for "You know what yins's problem is?"
And as a former Catholic, I have to say "amen."
Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. And when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. And there they worshiped her."
Ah man! I found the most clear cut verse for the worship of Mary. Hidden all this time in Acts.
Here's what I think happened: Dan was bored, having all this free time. So he taught himself physics, metallurgy, and maybe some alchemy too, and built a time machine, went back to 60AD and in the dead of night snipped the trailing verse from Luke's final copy. No one noticed before it went to print, so it took centuries for the oral tradition to be formally adopted. All so he could write this post to drive up his counter on Pyro.
Brilliant!
But in all seriousness, I look forward to good serious post on this subject.
"Paul, my chosen vessel, you need to write more about My Mom."
Here's something that sort of fits in with all this excellent dialog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghwe4TYY18&feature=player_embedded
Thanks for another excellent lesson with such few words.
"you lot's"...I got it, and I'm Canadian.
But more pertinent to the post...the Mary issue is definitely a case of don't go beyond Scripture.
Worshipping Mary is, of course, unbiblical and wrong. I do, however, think she deserves at least as much respect as Charles Spurgeon gets on this site. I’m sure they both were wonderful and godly people, albeit sinners saved by grace and the work of Christ alone.
Find me anyone literally offering incense to statues of Spurgeon, praying to them or him, or according divine attributes to Spurgeon, and I'm pretty sure you'd see an instant massive pile-on.
I still think the post is grammatically awkward.
Would this have been better?
“You know what the problem is with you lot? You just don’t think enough about My mother.”
Of course, I'm not an English Major.
So in this context, Tony's love song for Maria from West Side Story is probably right out the window.
Methinks Barbara nailed it in her 10:01 a.m. (PST) comment.
While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and His brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
But He answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
And Stretching out His hand toward His disciples He said, "Behold, My mother and My brothers!
For whoever shall do the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."
(MATTHEW 12:46-50, NASB)
My own thoughts on this, and I've heard and read others speak along these same lines, is that it kind of seems as though His mother and brothers were there to save Him from Himself, so to speak. They feeling that He was embarrassing them and Himself, and they came to try to bring him to His senses, and back down to earth.
And on Dan's sentence structure, (I've been beaten to the punch on this), but I am a Pittsburgher and we say "Yinz" and "Yinz guys" (even for girls).
I figured right away that "You Lot" was just another version of this from some other town.
This is my first comment ever on this blog, but I have been reading a long time and find it very edifying.
Barbara had the best response, and used my first choice for accompanying scripture.
"When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby [His body nailed to a Cross], he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home." John 19:26-27
"We are told that even in the awful agonies of body and mind which our Lord endured, He did not forget her of whom He was born. He mercifully remembered her desolate condition, and the crushing effect of the sorrowful sight before her. He knew that, holy as she was, she was only a woman, and that, as a woman, she must deeply feel the death of such a Son. He therefore commended her to the protection of His best-loved and best loving disciple, in brief and touching words: "Woman," He said, "behold thy son! Then saith He to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home."
We surely need no stronger proof than we have here, that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was never meant to be honored as divine, or be prayed to, worshiped, and trusted in, as the friend and patroness of sinners. Common sense points out that she who needed the care and protection of another, was never likely to help men and women to heaven, or to be in any sense a mediator between God and man! It is not too much to say, however painful the assertion, that of all the inventions of the Church of Rome, there never was one more utterly devoid of foundation, both in Scripture and reason, than the doctrine of Mary-worship." -Bishop JC Ryle
Thanks again for a good series.
I totally understand the Roman Catholic shot, but I'm totally lost on the Lutheran shot, at least in terms of LCMS. Can you elaborate on that, Frank or Dan?
I will not presume to critic Dan’s English, being an Afrikaans speaking person. I also thank you all, that nobody critics my English when a post a comment.
When yous Americans start languaging about the problems in the “big hat” guy’s church, I head for the stands, hear in South Africa his not that active so, I’m not that informed.
So will be waiting apon your next writ.
"You lot" is an expression common in Britain, where I lived for 11 years as a child and teen.
--Mike Mittelstadt
Dan is quite the linguist. I didn't realize he spoke Ebonics.
Okay, now, really? Next you'll be telling me that praying at/to a water stain under an overpass which looks like Mary (if you look at it first thing in the morning in just the right light without your glasses) is, I dunno, some sort of idolatry?!!11!?1!
You know, I'll even bet you're one of those who denies her as the co-redemptrix?
Apostate!
[/snark]
One time I was passing by a mural of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and there was a water stain on it that looked like a slice of toast.
I think we need to think more about toast.
Our Lord was no Mama's boy, that's for sure. Yet He loved her more than any son can ever love.
What did Jesus not say about his mother?
"Who are my mother and sisters and brothers? Here they are now, let me introduce them. Mary, my mother. Hi Mom. Stand up won't you. And Joses, and Judas and ...."
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