03 March 2011

Christ in the Old Testament: a bibliographical colloquium

by Dan Phillips


Some of the most fun I've had over at my place is when I tap into what I call the BibChr brain trust. Now I've an issue to offer up to the TeamPyro brain trust.


I've been invited to speak at a conference in England this summer, on the topic of Christ in the Old Testament. What a delight, and a blessing.

So I ask: What (A) are your favorite books or articles or online lecture/sermon series on that topic, and (B) why?

Should be fun, eh?

Obviously, you all know one of mine. It's a favorite because Rydelnik argues that the texts really do point to Christ by the confluence of authorial and divine intent. Messianic meanings were not illegitimately rammed back into the innocent, helpless texts by later writers. He argues this from a number of angles, with constant resort to the original Hebrew texts.

Another set of works that has a special place in my heart are those by David L. Cooper, a writer from the mid-20th century, who wrote a series themed on the God of Israel revealing Himself. Much (all?) of his work is online now.

Cooper was a deep student of the original languages, and ransacked the OT for Messianic prophecies and foreshadowings. He made an extensive case for seeing the truth of the Trinity at least framed in the OT, and expounded Messianic passages at great length, including chronological considerations and going on into future prophecy. I can't follow him exegetically at all points, but reading him was a terrific workout and left me with some helpful material. The "Golden Rule" of interpretation that I give and use is an adaptation of his own (see bottom of page).

[The "special place in my heart" is because I lived near the Biblical Research Society building, got some of its material, and ended up doing my first teaching and preaching as a Christian in a church meeting that was held there for a time.]

So, there are a couple of mine.

Now, your turn!

Dan Phillips's signature

76 comments:

Barbara said...

http://www.worldwide-classroom.com/courses/info/232/ Short and wonderful.

DJP said...

Only time for a quick look at the moment, Barbara - who's the teacher?

Barbara said...

Jay Sklar

Robert said...

The first three chapters of "It Is Well", by Mark Dever and Michael Lawrence cover the Passover (Ch. 1), Day of Atonement (Ch. 2), and Isaiah 52:13-53:12 (Ch. 3). All three of these chapters are by Dever, so I would expect that his sermons through the OT are just as good. I liked that Dever framed the discussion in the book with a good outline to cover why we need Jesus to have died in our place and what happens when we deny that He in fact did. Above the title on the front cover, it is described as "Expositions on Substitionary Atonement", and Dever is faithful to the text. Mainly I like the fact that he takes on the challenges that we face from many Christians in this day and age about Jesus dying on the cross and shows how the OT points to Him having to do so.

I would also say that there are many lessons that I have heard from R.C. Sproul over the years where he digs down deep into the text and shows how it points directly to Jesus. I love Sproul because he is so passionate, yet so very conversational.

Tournifreak said...

So what's the conference in England that you're speaking at? I'm sure some of us this side of the pond would love to meet you in person!

Timothy said...

My favorite by far is The Messiah in the Old Testament by Walter Kaiser, volume in the “Studies in Old Testament Biblical Theology” series, edited by Willem VanGemeren and Tremper Longman III, (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1995). If you're interested, email me and I'll gladly send you a book review I wrote on this book a while back.
trinitybaptistmuncie[at]gmail.com

donsands said...

"I've been invited to speak at a conference in England this summer, on the topic of Christ in the Old Testament."

Blimey, jolly good show.

That is wonderful brother. It's not Adrian your old friend is it?

John Dunn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John Dunn said...

Christ is gloriously pictured through Israel's Exodus event:

http://www.christmycovenant.com
/content/jd1
/jd1_lib1/new_exodus_in_christ.html

The article follows the historical-redemptive picture fulfillment trajectory in showing that Jesus Christ has accomplished a glorious new Exodus deliverance for his new covenant people.
Be blessed. Be encouraged. Be ravished with Christ!

Sonja said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhVrcV6WmfQ&feature=player_embedded#at=144

While not exactly what you have in mind, it's pretty impressive considering an 11 y/o boy understands better than others. :)

Neil said...

"Notes on Leviticus" by C.H. Mackintosh. Lays out the typology of the sacrifices.

http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/mackintosh/

Ron said...

Check out beginningwithmoses.org Some real scholarly articles on biblical theology there

DJP said...

Sonja, that video is being very popular just now.

What I wish it had was exegesis to warrant what he's saying, no rationale. "Jesus IS the..."? Otherwise, one has the feel of a memorized spiel. How can any that be hermeneutically-validated? Personally, I hope the young man has used his very effective memory to take in an equivalent number of Bible passages in faith.

Phil Johnson said...

Perhaps you have seen the recent controversy over this topic, stirred by some articles written by Mark Snoeberger, a professor at Detroit Baptist Theological Society, who holds a view that sounds like the extreme opposite of the perspective I think you and I share. Snoeberger says Christ is not the theme of the OT at all.

Nathan Pitchford responded here.

It surprised me to read this, because DBTS is a very conservative, fundamentalist, mostly Calvinistic school.

But DBTS is also dispensational, and Pitchford thinks he sees the genetic footprint of Ryrie's brand of dispensationalism in Snoeberger's view. Perhaps he is partly right. I'm inclined to think the issue is slightly different; it seems to me that Snoeberger, writing as a strict fundamentalist separatist, is attempting to lay a doctrinal foundation for rejecting the rationale of groups like T4G and GC (that the gospel is the center of the Christian message and the common commitment that binds true believers together). Snoeberger's inelegant use of the expression "Gospel Carnival" reflects his contempt for what he calls "the Gospel Togetherness Movement." He says it is not meant to denigrate the gospel per se.

However, I think his view does denigrate the gospel, deliberately downplaying what both Christ himself and the Apostle Paul said should be central.

It would be nice to have a refutation of some of Snoeberger's old-Dallas-style-dispensational arguments from your more Talbot-style dispensationalist perspective. Wish I could be in England to hear your message. Make sure they record it, and get the mp3 online.

By the way, a related question here is the issue of whether Christ was the true object of faith for OT saints. Many dispies say no. I say yes. What say you?

Ed said...

I would suggest Hengstenberg classic volume, 'Christology of the Old Testament' for sound conservative scholarship and devotion to the Savior. Also Patrick Fairbairn, 'Typology of Scripture' fits in along these lines. Both excellent and enduring volumes that illuminate the glories of Christ in the O.T.

Ed Sager

DJP said...

That's very, very interesting, Phil. Thanks so much for rising from you sickbed to share that. I'll chase it all down.

DBTS' journal has had some absolutely sterling articles, really splendid. I'll look forward to reading and evaluating this.

Boy, that's the subject of a post or a series of posts - and will be a main focus of my first session, likely. You know what - are you posting tomorrow? If you're not and Frank's not, I'll attempt a post on the current state of my thinking on that, a framing-post.

What say you, beloved bro?

Robert said...

I hope you don't mind my interjecting (for surely I have studied the matter much less than either of you), but with regard to Christ being the true object of faith for OT saints, I think the Bible is pretty clear:

"'Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.'" (John 8:56)

"'Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words.'" (John 5:45-47)

Ever since the fall of man and the curses in Genesis 3, the hope and promise has always been that the Seed of woman shall bruise Satan on the head and deal the death-blow to sin and death. This is the only hope that any can have in light of the fall.

Robert said...

Phil,

Also, wanted to add that it is good to hear you are recovering well so far, Phil. Saw on fb that you made a lap around the halls there and was encouraged. I'm sure you don't remember, but you travelled with John MacArthur to Dallas for a message regarding "A Tale of Two Sons" and, not knowing who you were, said "You must be the guy who does the intro for Grace to You" (on radio, mind you...Carl, I believe is his name). You said you were indeed not him and I felt rather embarassed. I'm sure you humble enough to not take much umbrage at that, but after realizing who you are and your involvement with MacArthur, I felt really silly. That said, I was very impressed that y'all stayed past 11 (that is when I got my book and study Bible signed) to autograph and greet (briefly, with the size of the crowd) those in attendance who stayed. I was even more impressed when my friend (a pastor who graduated from TMS) told me of the schedule y'all had around the time with conferences and preaching and all. Of course, it could have just been somebody of the same build and appearance and I'd feel even more foolish. 8o)

Lynda O said...

I like J.C. Ryle's emphasis on Christ in the Old Testament, understood especially through types/figures, and his list of many specific OT persons, institutions or events that typified Christ -- half related to His First Coming (suffering, atonement), and half related to His Second Coming in glory to rule and reign. As he said, Christ is the key to understanding the Old Testament, both in His cross and His crown.

S. Lewis Johnson also did some great series through several OT prophets, and showed how the trinity is revealed several places in "Isaiah's gospel."

Johnny Dialectic said...

Preaching Christ in All of Scripture by Clowney.

Angus said...

Dan,

Have you seen this page:

Preaching Christ from the Old Testament

Looks like a lot of excellent stuff there...I like Edmund Clowney, and have listened to Sinclair Ferguson on preaching from the OT (always love hearing my fellow Scots, and Ferguson is always worthwhile). THe site lists a lot of books and links to good materials. I'd guess you might use Luke 24 (see David Murray, another Scot! (What's The Old Testament All About)

Blessings,
Angus

Mel said...

Wayne Grudem does a wonderful job showing how Christ is pictured in the OT, (particularly within Genesis) in his Systematic Theology book.

testforpodcast said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ms4YnopiY

Julius Kim - Rock of Ages

A brother showed forwarded the link when I first came to Christ to show me how all of the Bible is about Jesus. It blew my mind.

Dan Sudfeld said...

Just finished reading Clowney's, "The Unfolding Mystery: Discovering Christ in the Old Testament." Excellent!

Angus said...

Actually, another book I remember really enjoy a few years ago was Alec Motyer(Look to the Rock: An Old Testament Background to Our Understanding of Christ) - showing as not available at Amazon - perhaps you can ask your friends at Kregel if they have a spare copy!

Lynda O said...

Also Patrick Fairbairn, 'Typology of Scripture' fits in along these lines. Both excellent and enduring volumes that illuminate the glories of Christ in the O.T.

Well, it depends on your focus and understanding of Christ in the OT and overall hermeneutics. Fairbairn tended to spiritualize the OT as all talking about Christ's First Coming and the glories of the Church age. His contemporary Horatius Bonar certainly took him to task for it, in his writings regarding the OT prophecies.

Strong Tower said...

Clowney!

Where's Frank when we need him?

Word Verification malabi: a bad exuse

As is why anyone would claim that the OT is not about Christ.

http://www.proctrust.org.uk/dls/christ_paper.pdf

I tap Monergism.com for a lot of things. The above is just one of many other pieces on the theme you'll find at John's place.

Another resource, and one I am sure you are aware of, is Calvin's commentaries. He rarely fails to make the connection by demonstrating the burden of the NT Scriptures to be that of the Old.

“Have you understood all these things?” They said to him, “Yes.” And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.”

Jesus repeatedly grounded all that he taught in OT Scripture. The preface of the parables was Isaiah. What was new? Simply put, says the Preacher, nothing. Treasure does not grow old as Paul creates for us a picture of the foundations's stones and of Christ its corner stone. A corner stone in ancient time was laid first. From it, all the necessary measurements of the structure were maid. Care must be taken not to build upon the foundation which is Christ with anything other than what has been given. So we are admonished not to go beyond what is written. 'Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? Well, in one sense no. As Ferguson quotes BB, the OT is a treasure room richly funished, though dimly lit, the the NT is Christ come, a light which gives definition to all that always was there.

donsands said...

"..a related question here is the issue of whether Christ was the true object of faith for OT saints."-Phil

Look forward to a Bible lesson on this suject. Much disagreement in the Church.

Welcome back to the blogisphere Phil. Hope your recovery is going good, and too much discomfort. Thanks be to God for doctors, hospitals and medicine, and for hearing our prayers.

Tom Chantry said...

Your question here is an incredibly complex one, as Phil’s comment above indicated. Seeing Christ in the New Testament is something all serious Christians should agree on, but the manner in which it is done will open many divides between Christians in hermeneutics and even eschatology.

Personally, I could not do better than Ed in recommending Fairbairn, although he is explicitly covenantal, so you may wind up agreeing with Lynda O. that he “spiritualizes” Old Testament prophecy.

I would urge you to proceed cautiously with Edmund Clowney - and indeed with anyone connected with the Westminsters. The reasons are related to issues recently discussed on this blog.

To be clear: Ed Clowney was a wonderful preacher and a prince of a Christian man. I consider myself greatly blessed to be among some of the last people to have a homeletics course with him. He was not doctrinaire about one homiletic approach, and his humble enthusiasm for the gospel radiated through his classes.

However, Clowney’s theories of preaching Christ from the Old Testament have been expanded and have calcified within the “Westminster” approach. The “functional antinomians” I wrote about a few weeks back may be taking cover from the gospel-centered formulations of Mike Horton; but an extreme interpretation of Clowney’s writings lie at the heart of their approach. Being determined to find Christ and the atonement in every passage of the Bible, they disparage any moral application as non-christocentric.

This has generated something of a homiletic rift within Presbyterianism. Preachers of the Puritan school (think Banner-of-Truth types like Sinclair Ferguson, and yes, I know he’s a Westminster man, too) are not at all on the same page as the extreme redemptive-historic guys.

(Here’s a glimpse of what I mean: I happen to know that the initial plan for the Banner of Truth conference in Pennsylvania this Spring was to announce the conference theme “Preaching Christ from All the Scriptures” and then to invite a bunch of non-redemptive-historic guys who would do it another way. The speakers and subjects are the same, but the theme title was changed - not sure why.)

So read Clowney, but read with caution and care, and don’t let some of his fans tell you that he’s saying more than he did. Clowney was an extraordinary preacher; many have tried to preach like him, and most of them fail.

(Another caveat - since he came up on this thread: Julius Kim was a friend of mine in my days in Escondido, and I consider him a brother above reproach. Don’t anyone go accusing me of bashing my alma mater and everything associated with it.)

Jason Woelm said...

Dan,

1. I agree with Timothy: The Messiah in the Old Testament by Walt Kaiser is my favorite because it takes OT prophecy at face value (for the most part) and beautiful portrays Christ in all sections of the OT Canon.

2. Chris Wright's Knowing Christ Through the OT is a good one, too, especially when how Christ's story is deeply embedded within Israel's history (although he's deeply committed for covenant theology, so you'll need your magic decoder ring).

3. If you're looking for a good book on OT Theophanies, look no further than James Borland's Christ in the Old Testament (http://amzn.com/1845506278). He does a great job arguing for Christ as the one manifested in the OT theophanies (great exegesis here).

Hope that helps.

John said...

Dan's thoughts on today as he drifted off to blissful sleep last night: "aaahhh...a nice non-confrontational post for tomorrow..."

Dave Doran's thoughts on Professor Snoeberger's thoughts.

http://gloryandgrace.dbts.edu/

DJP said...

LOL!

Charles said...

By the way, a related question here is the issue of whether Christ was the true object of faith for OT saints. Many dispies say no. I say yes. What say you?


It's an interesting question, because in many ways it hinges on the nature of revelation. When Job knew that his Redeemer lived and Abraham saw Christ's day, was this revelation different or functionally more miraculous than when a man today becomes aware that his Redeemer lives?

Does a man need anything more than awakening by the Spirit of God to see Christ, regardless of when in time He has lived, and is seeing Christ once he has been so awakened simply unavoidable, regardless of the amount of data that has been revealed to the world?

I'm not sure that I'm saying this clearly, but it's definitely an interesting topic to take back to Scripture...

Tom Chantry said...

"aaahhh...a nice non-confrontational post for tomorrow..."

That's right; nothing to see here - move along...

thenface2face said...

Dear Mr. Phillips,

Since Mel already suggested my favorite theological tome, here's something the kindergartners amongst us will really like--"The Jesus Storybook Bible" by Sally Lloyd-Jones, especially the read aloud version by David Suchet--listening will mentor every Sunday School teacher towards exciting storytelling.

I never get tired of the depths of theological insight expressed in such poetic passages as these:

"One day, he would get his children back. One day he would make the world their perfect home again. And one day, he would wipe
away every tear from their eyes...Before they left the garden, God whispered a promise to Ada and Eve: "It will not always be so! I will come to rescue you! And when do, 'm going todo battle against the snake. I'll get rid of the sin and the dark and the sadness you let in here. I'm coning back for you!"

And he would. One day, God himself would come."

And if you don't like books with lots of words in them, you can just look at some very pretty pictures. See? http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Storybook-Bible-Every-Whispers/dp/0310708257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299176732&sr=8-1#reader_0310708257


The Old Schoolmarm
Karen Butler

Aaron Snell said...

As Providence would have it, the Gospel Coalition has resources for this featured right now on their site:

http://thegospelcoalition.org/preaching-christ

thenface2face said...

Oh, I need some more Mavis Beacon.I hope you get the gist.

I was hurriedly eating my sandwich on lunch break as I typed.
Bad me. And crumbs all over the keyboard too.

Karen Butler

Geoff said...

I enjoyed Lig Duncan's talk on this from T4G 2006. Also, Keith Mathison of Ligonier has given high marks to Gordon Wenham's commentary on Leviticus for his relating it to Christians today: http://www.ligonier.org/blog/the-book-of-leviticus/

Daniel said...

Dan
two books by the converted Jew David Baron spring to mind.
Rays of the Messiah's Glory - Christ in the Old Testament is one, the other is The Servant of Jehovah, (an exposition of Isaiah 53).
Hope you like our little island when you come.
Daniel Oliver

DJP said...

I spent some time in Scotland and loved it. This time we'll spend more time in the south area. That's the plan!

Angus said...

One final recommendation - a book entitled Beginning at Moses: A Guide to Finding Christ in the Old Testament by Michael Barrett. Have not read it, but want to after reading his book Complete in Him (which I picked up after reading a recommendation by Chris Anderson) - super book.

Rachael Starke said...

Tom Chantry wrote:

"Seeing Christ in the -New- Testament is something all serious Christians should agree on..."

Ahem. This is likely a typo.

Or an indicator Tom Chantry may have not read or understood the post and is reduced to offering the kinds of comments us mere mortals usually offer, instead of his trademark-able deeply profound and eloquent ones.

Which means he has suffered some kind of TBI and is in need of our prayers.

I'm going with typo.

I'd like to note the time and date for the record in either case. We may not see another instance of it in our lifetime. :)

Tom Chantry said...

So here's the funny part - I actually caught that error and thought I had corrected it.

And then Dan sent me an email about it which I didn't understand.

I'm having a "you-better-just-pound-me-over-the-head-with-a-mallet-or-I'm-not-gonna-get-it" day.

DJP said...

I think we learned an important lesson here.

Next time Dan writes something and you find yourself thinking "What? I don't understand! Well, it can't be important, so...."

Remember this moment.

.c8

Tom Chantry said...

Dan's email:

"Seeing Christ in the New Testament is something all serious Christians should agree on"

I should hope so!!

My interpretation: Dan thinks that as a covenantalist I don't think we can agree with him on something so simple. What's the matter with him?

Lesson: Bold print was an insufficient mallet. Try bold/italic/undescore next time.

DJP said...

Caps, too?

Sorry:

CAPS, TOO?

Robert said...

Here is one by Allistair Begg:

http://www.truthforlife.org/resources/sermon/preaching-christ-old-testament/

Robert said...

Oops...make that Dr. Sinclair Ferguson...

Stefan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stefan said...

Dan:

There was and is only one book for this believing Jew (apart from the Bible!): Edith Schaeffer's Christianity is Jewish. She wrote it as expansion of her Gospel teaching, and not trying to see Christ under every squirrel's nest, but tracing out God's great work of redemption, focusing from beginning to end on the principle of substitutionary atonement underlying the faith of the Old Testament saints, from Abel through the Prophets, and culminating in Revelation.

The original edition's cover painting was, as I recall, Chagall's The Binding of Isaac, and of course, the story of Abraham, Sarah, and Isaac features prominently in the early part of the book. I read the book a few months after I was saved, and it was fundamental to transforming my understanding of God's great work in redemption, and my relationship to Him.

***

I recently read Clowney's book, but I have to agree with Chantry's caveats. It's sometimes very subtle, but there is a distinctly amillennialist and supersessionist spin to the book, to the point where I caught myself going "What!?" several times. (The Schaeffers, from what I understand, were premillennial, and therefore took the promises of God seriously, with all due respect to Dr. Clowney)

Tom Chantry said...

I haven't the slightest idea what to think of the thoughts in that last paragraph being expressed as a recasting of my comment. Starting to think I oughtn't to have gotten out of bed this morning.

Stefan said...

Sorry, Tom. I didn't mean that I was paraphrasing your comment in what I wrote. I was agreeing with you, but then moving on to my own critique, and alluding to things that have been discussed here and elsewhere in the past.

I just got trough a course on the Later Prophets taught by a WHI devotee using Clowney's book. It was an eye opener, and clarified for me a lot of diverse issues that have come up here and there over the last few months.

Tom Chantry said...

Don't worry, I'm not offended.

John Dunn said...

A book called: Contours of Pauline Theology. by Dr. Tom Holland of Wales Evangelical School of Theology.

A fantastic study which explores the Apostle Paul's use of the OT in formulating his redemptive theology, especially regarding the Exodus narrative and prophetic promise of a New Exodus. Find it on Amazon for reviews.

Brad Williams said...

I love Dr. Sailhammer's "The Pentateuch as Narrative." I liked his newer book "Meaning in the Pentateuch" as well.

DJP said...

Tournifreak - I think I didn't answer my British friends, sorry.

When I know a web page giving info, I'll let you know. I'd be delighted to meet our readers thitherwards.

Greg Gibson said...

Dan, the Dictionary for Theological Interpretation of the Bible (Vanhoozer, Ed.) should be helpful.

For anyone interested in Tom's concerns about hyper-R.H., you can see more at:

Christ-Centered Cautions by Colin Hanson http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/novemberweb-only/146-11.0.html

Ethics, Preaching, and Biblical Theology by John Frame http://www.frame-poythress.org/frame_articles/1999Ethics.htm

And don't be afraid of the charge of "moralism/legalism" if you want to preach an occasional, topical (non-Christ-centered) sermon. Christ-centered? Every ministry, but not every message.

Mike Sr said...

Abner Chou

rwt said...

The Messiah in the Old Testament in the Light of Rabbinical Writings by Risto Santala.

Publisher: Keren Ahvah Meshihit: Jerusalem

First published in Hebrew 1980

Amazon has used copies.

DJP said...

Don't know it, RWT, but I see it's online.

David Ould said...

I realise there's a bunch of good suggestions already, but here's a couple that I find immensely useful.

http://christthetruth.wordpress.com great little blog taking a very positive approach - the OT saints knew.

Also useful, at least to my mind,
Borland, Christ in the Old Testament - concentrates on Christophanies.

pp 590-640 in Hurtado, Lord Jesus Christ looks at the ante-Nicene fathers' approach to this topic. Helpful overview of where they were coming from.

Personally, I wrote my seminary thesis on the issue of typology. FWIW, I'll pimp it to you here. Maybe it will stimulate or provoke.

rwt said...

Glad to see it online. Click on the link for the list of sources consulted and you will see a bibliography of over 100. The only problem is that many are in German or other languages. Sprechen sie Deutsch?

geoffrobinson said...

I would recommend looking up DA Carson's lectures online (in mp3) on the use of the Old Testament in the New Testament. He edited a book that tries to go over every Old Testament reference in the New Testament. His lectures are amazingly good.

I would also recommend Dr. Michael Brown's Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, especially the Old Testament prophecy volume and the New Testament volume.

For a non-Christian source, I highly recommend Marc Shapiro's the Limits of Orthodox Theology. Too much to go over, but it details how Rashi's 13 Principles aren't the end all and be all of Jewish Orthodoxy. In the meantime, he accidentally covers a lot of things pertinent to your post. (My detailed multi-part review can be found at goyforjesus.blogspot.com.)

Lastly, I would recommend looking at Jerome's preface to Genesis for the Vulgate translation. He defends himself not using the LXX. In the process, he touches on Messianic prophecy and textual variant issues: http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=214

Stefan said...

RWT (and Dan):

That looks great! Thanks for mentioning the book and the link.

The old-time Baptist John Gill cited rabinnic literature extensively in his Old Testament commentary, although it was more often to simply shed background light on passages, than to bring in specifically messianic pronouncements.

(I often wonder how a preacher in 18th-century London had access to such a wealth of resources...then again, it was the greatest city in the world at the time!)

neikenberry said...

I've found Jim Hamilton's book on biblical theology, God's Glory on Salvation Through Judgment, to be tremendously helpful in my own thinking about Christ in the Old Testament. It's extremely text-driven and uses the Law/Prophets/Writings division of the Hebrew OT to trace themes that ultimately culminate in Christ.

Of course, I'm biased in favor of him (as he is one of my seminary professors) and I don't have much preaching experience, so take this opinion for what it's worth.

James S said...

I agree with a bunch mentioned here already, the new page for Christ in The OT at The Gospel Coalition being the latest.

Also someone said a site that I frequent often, http://beginningwithmoses.org/

They have a lot of material there from Aussie Graeme Goldsworthy, who's books are all good for seeing the whole flow of OT through NT history centered on Christ.

Also I agree about Glen Scrivener's blog, http://christthetruth.wordpress.com/

By the way I answer a wholehearted YES to Phil's question.

I have also been following some mind-streching ongoing discussions by people like Martin Downes, Paul Blackham and others putting forth the very interesting idea that "The Angel of the Lord" in the OT was actually Jesus Christ pre-incarnate, and the scripture they put forth to back it up is pretty convincing. Though we cannot say definitely it was Him, it is highly likely, and a very interesting topic to explore.

I was reading an old now-closed blog (still online for reading) where Martin Downes once again brought it up (at the time it had been on the back-burner since the 'Paul Blackham - Graeme Goldsworthy debate' a few years previous (which never really was a true debate because they both pretty much agreed with each other except for some minor technicalities).

Anyway, Martin once again brought the topic up and it suddenly went into a full fledged 187 response discussion...
Here is the link if you want to check it out -

http://bibleandcoffee.blogspot.com/2009/05/whatever-happened-to-angel-of-lord.html

Paul Blackham gave a talk on this at the EMA 2002 conference at THE PROCLAMATION TRUST which can be downloaded free of charge. It isnt listed for some reason in the contents, but it is the final talk of the conference (I think session 12). it is here - http://www.proctrust.org.uk/product/ema-material/ema-2002-595

There are also many other great minister-on-minister teaching materials and conference audio downloads here from the true masters, including founder Dick Lucas, as well as Don Carson, Alistair Begg, David Jackman, Dale Ralph Davis, Sinclair Ferguson, Walter Kaiser, and many many more.
They are very 'Christ-in-the-whole bible' centered.

You only need to register (free) to get the downloads, but be warned - there is so much great material here you may want to add some additional hard drive space to contain it all. They also have a good blog. Their Resources page is: http://www.proctrust.org.uk/resources

thomas4881 said...

If a Christian is a Calvinist, premillenialist and dispensationalist does that make that Christian an outcast? I've seens some real hatred from many sides against those three topics.

Stefan said...

Re my 8:07 comment: "rabbinic," not "rabinnic." Gee willikers.

Thomas Louw said...

This topic has been very interesting for mere in the last couple of months.

My OT professor was …well I believe a born again Christian but, taken in with the notion that the OT was devoid of Christ.

The Angel of the Lord was maybe as man most probably just a man. All the prophecies were people reading things into the scripture.

Well this how I understood him.

I have found this post and the other 9 post very interesting but, I don’t want to make a final judgement.

http://christthetruth.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/christ-in-the-old-testament-1

I know maybe these 10 posts might be "kinder-garden" stuff compared to what was mention by others.

Does anyone knows of some good “Christ in the Old Testament 101” stuff on line.
(No funds at this time to purchase any of the hard hitting books that was mentioned here.

I have some questions about this Glen guy (the author of the link) especially when he says God is “others” centred. That just makes a lot of alarm bells go off.

Stefan said...
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Stefan said...

Thomas:

I've taken down and edited my previous comment. Please forgive me for my presumptuousness, in that I was telling you stuff that you already know.

Here's the revised comment, minus the extraneous stuff:

***

That page you linked to seems pretty sound. If it's reflective of all the blog's content, then it seems to be okay. (Caveat: I am not a pastor.)

But where was the "others centered" line? I couldn't find it. Often times, it is something subtle like that that gives you a clue that something is off.

And don't presume that this is "kindergarten" stuff that the rest of us know already. There are, sadly, many very basic things about the truth of God's Word that I am always having to relearn.

Thomas Louw said...
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Thomas Louw said...

Stefan
The "others centered" line?

I found it under his heading About.
Then I read this post titled “God is not a narcisist”

He bashes John Piper’s “Desiring God” and “Pleasure of God” saying Pipers doctrine of God is off.

Stefan said...

Thomas:

Thanks for the clarification.

He explains what he means by "other-centeredness" in this post, in which he writes about the relationship between Father, Son, and Spirit.

His trinitarian views seem to be orthodox, but he lays more emphasis on what each Person gives to the other Persons: for example, the Father committing all things to the Son's authority; rather than emphasizing the Father's doing everything for the sake of His glorification.

I think he makes a point, although 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 makes clear that the ultimate end of history will be when the Son has accomplished all His purposes, and delivers His Kingdom to the Father.

It would seem that his issues with Piper stem out of where the emphasis lies in their trinitarianism.

fragranceoftruth said...

Meno Kalisher, pastor of Jerusalem Assembly House of Redemption in Israel, has a fabulous teaching series called, 'Jesus in the Old Testament'.

Sermon Audio has session 5,

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=102209104592

but I could only find the entire series at The Berean Call's website in cd format. There is a book from the series,also, but I do not remember where I got it.

http://www.thebereancall.org/node/4778

His perspective comes from the idea that when you are evangelizing Jews you cannot use the New Testament.

Kalisher teaches with a unique insight considering Hebrew is his native tongue and he intersperses humor throughout.

This valuable resource has helped me to see not only Jesus in the Old Testament, but also the entire Trinity, as well.

Hope you'll check it out.

~Yvonne

trogdor said...

It appears this year's Gospel Coalition conference is on the same topic. It's in Chicago, so if you can find a way to get here we'd gladly put you up.