14 September 2011

Open Letter to Steven Furtick (1 of 2)

by Frank Turk

Dear Steven --

You posted this video on 01 March 2011 in your YouTube channel:



Somehow I just found it.

I'll be posting a response video next week as I have a new iPod that is also an insane flipCam, but in the meantime I have a video I am sure you will enjoy to consider against what you posted here:


G.O.S.P.E.L. from Humble Beast Records on Vimeo.

I'm not a rapper, or a humble beast, but my starting place with you, and to you, and for you is the difference between this video and yours.  It's stark -- and I think you'll miss it unless I unpack it for you.

I hope you will look forward to it as much as I am looking forward to it.








102 comments:

ronclick said...

Have you seen this Furtick tirade?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVqD4EWozII
Nor apparently is the church for Christians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wILPzCyWYk

Yurie said...

I daresay that video was one of the best videos I've seen all year. It kinda makes me regret all the other really lame videos I've wasted time on. Thanks!

The Damer said...

I just gave that video the thumbs down on youtube. I guess I'm a hater.

Frank Turk said...

Since we are talking about 2 different videos in this post, try to not just say 'the video'.

Thanks.

eric opsahl said...

it seems from Furtick's position, the purpose of attending church is to evangelize the lost and not feeding the sheep.

eric opsahl said...

it seems from Furtick's position, the purpose of attending church is to evangelize the lost and not feeding the sheep.

Suz said...

Frank, I really feel you would gain more "street cred" if you rapped your response, or at least make it rhyme. Something to consider.

Steve Berven said...

Back to the tired old discussion: evangelize them to WHAT?!

So, holding to the primacy of Biblical truths, and having the temerity to actually insist on accountability to God's law and precepts = "hater."

I think we need to get shirts made.

Kay said...

Oh how I loathe the term 'hater'. The second video was truly awesome. The first was just bobbins. And smug bobbins at that.

Robert said...

Boy that Paul...you know he was such a hater. And haters gonna hate and pontificate and eat the food on their plate. Maybe Furtick can talk to Jesse Jackson and Dr. Seuss for some pointers on his next video...I'm sure he'd find their counsel more suiting than an actual disciple of Jesus Christ.

Back to Paul, though, what would Furtick think if he tried reading any of Paul's epistles from the viewpoint of the audience he was writing to? Or better yet, maybe Furtick should examine the stand he is making and read the letters to the churches in Revelation because I am sure that one of those would be useful. Of course, the first step is to come to the Word humbly and I don't see much humility in this video...and from the other times I have seen clips of him, it seems like that humility is greatly lacking for him in general.

Michael Lawmaster said...

I guess Furtick would not have liked and probably would have labeled Athanasius a 'hater' since he was concerned about a single letter.

Caleb Kolstad said...

Dear Steven,

I suggest you start with Revelation 2 and 3 to find the biggest HATER (according to your standard)- His name is Jesus Christ.

Jesus' lack of love for 5 of the 7 churches mentioned in Rev 2 & 3 make me wonder if that part of the Bible is really inspired?

Mr. Furtick needs to study before he teaches (2 Tim 2:15).

2OFUS said...

Both videos are so well done to do what we love to have done to us. Make us FEEL alive. One has more real content than the other though. And I want more real content yet. So please Frank leave the ipod on the shelf and give us the more better print. Videos are such a distraction for getting to the truth

stratagem said...

I watched this "Furtick" (whoever he is) video when Phil tweeted it a few days ago. Since he tweeted it without comment, I had assumed Phil was endorsing it. So, I was n't sure how to take the tweet. Maybe Frank's open letter will answer that question?

donsands said...

Who are the haters this Furtick is talking about? Someone who simply preaches the truth of the Word of God?
He may be one of those "Peace, Peace" guys (Jer. 6).

The GOSPEL video was wonerdfully done, and I'm no rapper niether, (or is that neither).
Thank you for both videos. Furtick needs some bug time help. The artist who preached the truth in his own way was terrific, and moved my heart. Lord bless him.

lee n. field said...

Two thoughts:

1) I don't think Mr. Furtick knows what hate is.

2) What didn't you hear in Mr. Furtick's little piece?

Johnny Dialectic said...

Well, yes, the term "hater" is over the top. And young hip pastors are not going to hurt their popularity by railing against "hate."

We should note, however, that had the technology existed back then a certain other young, well regarded preacher might have delivered a better worded message along similar lines. File that one under "Ears, He Who Has" and "Eye, Removing Beam From."

I liked the second vid a lot. In terms of performance and poetry, it was more engaging, and the message, of course, more substantial.

To be fair to Pastor Furtick, video messages do not have to be of a piece. His was directed at a cross-section of the church (though ill defined), the latter to non-believers.

I'll stop now in light of the Word Verification: terse

Daryl said...

That first video makes me tired.

The second video makes me want to find a pulpit and go preach.

I've noticed something in my short (43 year) life so far. Those with no real confidence will go after those who disagree and label and slam and and and...

Those with real confidence, particularly with confidence in Christ and His gospel, leave the others alone until they start doing and saying things damaging to the gospel.

Good choice for an open letter Frank. Damage is being done, and for what?
So some punk kid can make a name for himself?

Tax Collector said...

For Furitck, and those of his kind, they want to reach the world for Jesus but they don’t know who He is. Instead of making disciples of the Lord Jesus they are making converts to a false gospel for the sake of gain.

If you haven’t watched the videos linked in the first comment – please do. I saw them last week and literally became sick to my stomach… and this is what passes as ‘pastor’ these days?

Just Jules said...

Video 2...word.

Chris H said...

I love that second video. If I have only 5 (or so) mins to tell someone what they need to know, the second one wins, hands-down.

Ken Silva said...

Just so you know, Steven Furtick is no lightweight. He is fresh off preaching for Bill Hybels' leadership fiasco.

He recently preached for James MacDonald at HBC, both MacDonald and Matt Chandler are slated to preach for Furtick at his January 2012 conference.

In addition, Furtick has enough notoriety that T.D. Jakes follows him on Twitter. During a recent exchange between Jakes and Furtick we find Fakes is quite likely to preach at Furtick;s January conference as well.

I document all of this at my site if one doubts what I've said. :-)

Jessica said...

I love the second video!
And as to the first:
Dear Pastor Furtick,
What you call hating, we call contending earnestly for the THE faith, once for all delivered to the saints.

Rhology said...

If you want to know who the haters are, one of them is Chris Rosebrough.

Scott Gordon said...

Rho,

Upon what basis would you categorize Rosebrough as a hater?

Phil Johnson said...

Strategem: "I had assumed Phil was endorsing it. So, I was n't sure how to take the tweet"

Seriously? No one has ever accused me of over-subtlety before. I hardly know what to say.

Rhology said...

Scott Gordon,

donsands had asked:
Who are the haters this Furtick is talking about?

I answer: Furtick is talking about ppl like Rosebrough, and Ken Silva.
You know, people who care about the truth but whom wolves call "haters".

Mark | hereiblog said...

Frank,

That video was great! That video being the second one. The first? Not so much.

Couldn't Furtick just play his video in response to itself?

Yurie, I'm curious. Are you the same Yurie from years ago on CARM?

James Joyce said...

Haters!
http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/TeamPyro/e-s_049.jpg

Tom Chantry said...

I saw that first video the other week. My favorite line: "You look like a todler." Really?

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!

Un-be-lieveable.

I am having a really hard time believing that Furtick is for real. Is it possible that anyone in America can listen to him and take him seriously? He seems to me like a contestant on American Idol - not one who can actually win, but one for whom everyone feels kind of sorry, so he sticks around longer than he should.

Sorry if this is needlessly hateful, as I am sure many will find it, but the guy's whole approach to communication demands to be mocked. If this is what will pass for bold proclamation of truth in our day, the church really is finished!

Frank Turk said...

Johnny --

I find it interesting that the Dose of Spurgeon you cite is probably more applicable to Furtick's video that it is in agreement with it.

I'm pretty sure that's not why you linked to it.

Frank Turk said...

Tom --

It's a good thing the church is riding on Jesus' finished work, no?

Tom Chantry said...

Frank,

True.

Johnny Dialectic said...

Frank: Can be both/and. It's a "beam" thing.

Mel said...

Video2 brought excitement to my heart and a tear to my eye! Man, do I love to hear the gospel when it's preached correctly.

Guess it must be a Spirit thing.

donsands said...

"Furtick is talking about ppl like Rosebrough, and Ken Silva."-Rhology

I thought as much. The Church is such a mixture of people, isn't it. There are proud people who do hate false teachers, and there are those like Ken Silva who speaks the truth in love.
I cannot believe Matt Chandler is preaching at this offensive so-called pastor's conference in Jan. Perhaps Matt will be booed off out of the pulpit.

Merrilee Stevenson said...

The first notable difference to me is each man's projected audience. Furtick's message is not to non-believers, but to those who would defend the truth in mostly black and white terms. It comes across as a manifesto against those in the church who have long stood for the truth of the Bible. (As an aside, I think his graphics--which appear at times to be shooting out of the side of his head, were an unfortunate choice. Also the camera angle sometimes makes his eyes look crossed, which is not helpful.)

The second video presents the gospel well to those who haven't understood/heard it, rather than declaring war within the church. To those who are fans of that sort of thing (epic rap battles of history), more power to 'em; may God be glorified!

Mark | hereiblog said...

BTW, what is Furtick defending in his video?

793a1482-deea-11e0-adb6-000bcdcb5194 said...

Furtick frightens me because there are so many people who take him seriously. His video was hard to watch without cringing. The second video was totally focused on God. Hmmmm.....Furtick's video could have been shown at any public gathering. What did it have to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ??

Scooter said...

Frank,

I have a vague memory of you posting an Elephant Room discussion with Furtick earlier this year. Is it in the back of your mind with these 2 videos?

At a minimum, Furtick fails to follow the examples of the apostles to preach clearly. It's just as easy to say he's defending orthodoxy as to say he is bashing it. If he has someone in mind who is clearly causing divisions and muddying the message of our Lord, then he should say so.

(Thanks for the American Idol picture Tom. It gave me a good chuckle in my morning meeting.)

ANiMaL said...

I watch the Furtick stuff. I read all the comments. And I wonder why I come on the internet at all to see anything christian.

I watch the second video and I find myself crying in the shower weeping over my sin looking to wash the feet of Jesus with those tears.

Frank why do you do this to me.

Robert Warren said...

I think "Mark | hereiblog" hit well on the underlying irony of using spitefulness to respond to perceived hatred.

I first viewed the Furtick video this morning on my phone. It seemed overly sinister, so I waited until lunch to look on the computer. It still seems sinister. I'm sure guys like Pastor Furtick leave nothing to chance, so the lighting angle, the exaggerated facial expressions (and perhaps makeup) were surely calculated. To what end?

Not being an aficionado of the art form, I'll just admire the clear and powerful message of the second gentlemen. All that and a quote from Spurgeon at no extra charge!

Frank Turk said...

Because you need it.

Frank Turk said...

Becuase I need it.

Solameanie said...

Kay, amen, amen and amen again. "Hater" is the new bludgeon/intimidation word of our time, whether it be politics or religion.

I think we need to stop being intimidated. Do I hate? Yes, I absolutely DO hate. I HATE the lies of the enemy that help send people to a Christless eternity. I HATE the words and deeds of the false teachers that play the Pied Piper of Hamelin to so many. I HATE the destructive effects of wickedness in the lives of men, women and children, and I HATE the destruction that tears churches apart when the true "haters" -- the false teachers -- cause destruction and division by introducing their doctrines of demons.

Yes, I'm a hater. And the love of God drives me to it.

Mike Westfall said...

The Furtick video seemed to me self-refuting. Hating on "haters."

Yep God is nuthin' but love.

Whatever holiness He may have is totally irrelevant. To dwell on that is hateful.

Love, Love, Love. All you you need is Love.

Rachael Starke said...

From the beyond ridiculous to the utterly sublime.

@Robert - Some of the aspects you called out make me think the reverse. If Furtick's peeps were really trying to make their point well (even one as nonsensical as this), they would have put those very things, and more, into consideration. It's a hoisting on a collective petard of gargantuan scale.

stratagem said...

Phil - yes, seriously. Since I agree with about 99.999% of the things you write, I gave you the benefit of the doubt though. (The tweet in question is at the end of this message). I actually was confused by the video because it was so bizarre - yelling in a hateful tone at h8ers? Hence I assumed Furtick was practicing sarcasm, and you were endorsing the lesson of that sarcasm.

I was operating at a disadvantage because I am only an amateur Christian and therefore not up on every Tom, Furtick and Harry preacher... so probably if I'd known who he was, I'd have figured out that he was not using sarcasm as a teaching tool, but (incredibly) was dead serious!

Grace and peace be upon Phil Johnson... seriously.


"Hey Haters!": http://youtu.be/NCW9-MglCsw @stevenfurtick on what love's s'posed to look like. Basically, like this: http://bit.ly/pRUjWz

stratagem said...

I submit this highly-relevant video for your edification:

Haters

R.C. said...

Hate haters gonna hate.

the phantom of the bookstore said...

I object to Furtick's tone.

Milton said...

Besides the adolescent sullenness of Furtick's video the other thing I found laughable was that he looks like he has vampire teeth! Watch it again if you can stand it and see if you can't just imagine a teenage Bela Lugosi.

Tom Chantry said...

Did Furtick take hatred out for coffee?

Thom C said...

I think the thing that struck me the most about Furtick's video was his smug arrogance, or at least that is what it seemed like to me. Talking down to haters as if he is better than they are.

And after seeing the documentary from Elevation Church called "How We Change The World," I have to interject, who is it that changes the world? I certainly don't think it is any Church or pastor. I realize that Furtick did not speak on during the documentary, but the blessing to produce and release it certainly had to come from him, so, by definition, He endorsed it. And again, the tone that struck me was one of smug arrogance.

Then again, it could just be me.

Ken Silva said...

For those who might be interested I put this together today to help out: http://apprising.org/2011/09/14/hello-steven-furtick/

I've been covering Furtick along with my good friend Chris Rosebrough for two years now.

Please know that he's already a lot bigger within younger evangelicalism than you may know.

Webster Hunt (Parts Man) said...

Furtick's video isn't ambiguous - when have the unorthidox ever been accused of "defending the truth"?

That second video was wonderful. O how humbling to remember that even when I was a God-hater, had cursed His Name, had sinned against Him in whatever way I could find, that in His love and righteousness that Jesus came according to the definite plan of God to glorify Himself in saving His enemies from the justice we deserved. And so much more, to adopt me and conform me to the image of the one who died and was raised to justify me!

Rev Jason Hilliard said...

I love video #2. The Furtick video gets me torqued. The ironic thing about his video is that in declaring that the "day of the hater" is "done" he is actually himself hating on a group which he names haters...

So he is "hating" on them the way he is upset that they are "hating".

Is there some hating going on? Sure there is. There are some who just have an ax to grind. But not every critic is an ungodly unbiblical hater.

We are called to discern and call out false teaching. That certainly characterized a part of Paul's ministry. Would Steven consider Paul a "hater"?

St. Lee said...

My first thought upon viewing the Furtick video was "I wonder if it's hard to talk with a perpetual sneer on your face.

In all honesty, having never heard of him before, I assumed that he was an atheist just "hating" on Christians. I had to listen a second time (after reading the comments) to pick up one infinitesimally small moment where he alluded to believing that there is a God. I think that says a lot.

The second video said a lot too, but in a good way!

donsands said...

"Please know that he's already a lot bigger within younger evangelicalism than you may know."-Ken

This is quite sad. I was thinking how I would hate for my grandsons to be in this guy's congregation. Especially Josh,who is in middle school now. I thank my Lord for a good Christian scholl that my grandsons do go to.
This Futrick does not know,--and is very ignorant,--when to stifle himself. I would like to try and reason with him, but there are some your simply have to shake the dust off your cloak with. Seen those types, and they can be dense as hardwood oak.

Mary Elizabeth Tyler said...

Amidst all the hoopla, there is always a reason to come to Pyro for a laugh.

Strategem wrote, "I was operating at a disadvantage because I am only an amateur Christian and therefore not up on every Tom, Furtick and Harry preacher..."

Funny!

Appreciate what you do, Ken Silva!

agbasher said...

Was Furtick being a "hater" when he kicked the disabled boy out of his church several months ago?

I suppose that boy was a hindrance to reaching the lost.

Ken Silva said...

Don,

"This is quite sad."

Indeed it is my brother. I've hopefully provided the evidence though.

Mary Elizabeth Tyler,

"Appreciate what you do, Ken Silva!"

The Lord be praised, for the kind words. I don't hear them often, so I much appreciate it! :-)

ronclick said...

Follows is a video of a fairly recent controversy surrounding Furtick's church that was in the news.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GXwQejhMM&feature=player_embedded
Needless to say, I have grave concerns with the ecclesiology of Furtick's church. I spent some time at NewSpring, pastored by Furtick's mentor of sorts, Perry Noble. What Furtick and fellow travelers do errantly redefine the nature of the church and ultimately, the nature of the Gospel....an all with good intention.

ronclick said...

Follows is a url to a video of a fairly recent controversy surrounding Furtick's church that may be of some interest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7GXwQejhMM&feature=player_embedded

Needless to say, I have grave concerns with the ecclesiology of Furtick's church. I spent some time at NewSpring, pastored by Furtick's mentor of sorts, Perry Noble. What Furtick and fellow travelers do errantly redefine the nature of the church and ultimately, the nature of the Gospel....and all with good intention.

Solameanie said...

I hate to point it out, but the Kinks have a song called "Hatred." It's on their last studio CD called "Phobia," released in the mid 1990s. Perhaps we could make a video.

Tom Chantry said...

I hate to point it out...

No, I don't think you do.

Frank Turk said...

Somehow we has stopped comparing item "A" to item "B".

Feel free to do that rather than break out your own complaints and links off-site.

Cathy said...

Has anyone told Furtick that somebody made a really bad parody of him- and actually made him look like that devil character played by Al Pacino a few years back (can't remember the name of the movie.) I mean everything was so over the top- the hair, the strange eyes, the expensive black suit, the self exaltation.

Second video- ahhhhhhh. Crystal clear truth.

mikeb said...

If you've been in a seeker-friendly megachurch in the last 10 years, you know exactly who the haters are that Furtick is speaking against.

You'll also understand the word "haterade."

There was a similar video of Perry Nonle awhile back:

http://apprising.org/2009/12/08/perry-noble-says-youre-a-jackass/

Phillip said...

Wow, where to start. Lot's to be disturbed about in the first video. I think that having a transcript of both videos and comparing them side by side would make Furtick's screed look even worse. Maybe it's just me, but put that persistent scowl aside and get rid of all the flashy graphics and the shallowness of the first video would seem even more apparent. Sounds like he's picking a fight.

Furtick's parting shot:
..this generation is waiting to restore the hope of a nation

I thought that's what Christ came to do. Makes one want to ask - why not go ahead and just crucify the Son of God all over again?

Thanks for the second video. A good reminder that the true problem is sin - my own most of all - and that our only remedy and hope can be found in Christ's payment which he graciously made in our place.

Tom Chantry said...

Phillip,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

The two videos really can be compared and contrasted, can't they! Just because something doesn't address unbelievers for the purpose of evangelism doesn't mean that one can't discern the gospel which it promotes.

JR said...

So was Paul "hating" on Peter when he rebuked him? No. Big difference between rebuke and hate. Regardless of the catch all slang nature of the term.

If I wanted to "hate" on Furtick I would mention something about when I listen to him I feel like I'm being preached at by Yosemite Sam. But I wouldn't do that.

Yurie said...

Mark of HereIBlog -

I don't think I'm the Yurie of CARM... I've been to CARM, but I don't recall posting there ever. I just checked to see if I've even registered there and I have not. My memory IS kind of bad though, and frankly, there aren't many Yuries in the world so that leads me to think that maybe I am? If the person you're thinking of was of particular and extra elegance and clarity of thought I'll take the association. On the other hand, if the dood was a little cantankerous and smart-mouthed, perhaps it was me. Sorry for the disgression, don't boot me Frank!

Also, to add another comment on the two videos, (I should have been more precise about which video I was referring to in my first comment), I think that when truth and love and creativity come together, it's always a beautiful thing. On the other hand, when obfuscation and hater-osity and mimicry train wreck together, it makes you want to laugh or throw up or throw up so hard you laugh. I hope that's not too graphic. I also hope it's obvious which videos I'm referring to!

Matt Mc said...

Great video G.O.S.P.E.L. until he got to the end and never once mentioned the need for repentance. Sounds like that easy believism thing all over again.

Matt Mc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt Gumm said...

Matt Mc: Really? That's what you got out of video 2? Sounded pretty G.O.S.P.E.Lly to me. He even gives Spurgeon a shout-out.

I'm gonna have to vote "no" on easy-believism, and "yes" on implied but not explicitly stated.

Jay Budzilowski said...

Furtick's video for me is simply: Arrogance + Adobe After Effects

Tyrone said...

It would appear this verse is now gaining momentum; (2Ti 4:3) "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,"

Repent and Trust in Jesus said...

Furtick seems so full of himself, he scares me.

Matt Mc said...

Matt Gumm: This is the problem with the way the gospel is presented today. When we make the Gospel so easy anyone can do it.. When we say all you have to do is believe.. When repentance is not implicitly preached, man's sin nature will keep him there... in his sin, to later be condemmed by our Lord because he did not do the will of the Father (Mat 7:21). Jesus said "Few" will enter (Matt 7:14). It is not easy, but hard.

Luk 13:23 And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

We need to repent and believe...

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


Luk_13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.


Act_3:19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,


Act_26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

And I could list several others if you would like. The point is, implied or not, the second video above (G.O.S.P.E.L) did not direct man to repent and believe... only to believe. That is not the Gospel, but a false gospel.

Matt Mc said...

Matt Gumm: Sorry, the first scripture I meant to list got left off:

Mar_1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Robert said...

Furtick defends sinful man and attacks those who stand for the truth and demand that preachers stick to expositing the Word so that Christians can grow in maturity. He stands with confidence in himself and boldness in what he does (without wanting any criticism or accountability).

The rapper from humble beast declares the truth and presents the Gospel. He standly with confidence on the truth of God's Word and shows that we bring nothing to the table.

I guess the question for me is why do Matt Chandler, James MacDonald, Mrak Driscoll (although this doesn't really surprise me) and David Platt find themselves sharing the stage at a conference with this guy? And now I see that Mark Dever is going to speak at the one next year...although I haven't seen a full list of participants for the elephant room 2012. We don't need any more big tent philosophy brought to the church...in fact we need to be setting ourselves apart as God has always called us to be set apart from the world. It isn't that we have nothing to do with the world, but I don't see why we should stand side by side with somebody like Furtick unless he is going to accept biblical reproof.

stratagem said...

It's still hard for me to believe that that Furtick fellow wasn't using hypocritical satire to make the point about people who call others "haters." If no one pointed out to him the obvious disconnect between what he is saying, and what he is doing, then I can only conclude that he lives in a personality cult where no one dares to challenge the Big Kahuna in the pulpit.

Or, maybe it's a new concept, like Gunboat Evangelism or something? Because you know, what Christianity really needs is more new concepts, because that's obviously working.

Frank Turk said...

Strategem:

What if I said this --

[QUOTE]
He thinks that other people should be more like him and do more things for Jesus, like ministry.
[/QUOTE]


Now interpret the video.

Seth said...

WOW... so much hate in such a short video about "love". Furtick is so lost. Even funnier... I went to the YouTube page for this video and "commenting" has been turned OFF. Hypocrite.

the phantom of the bookstore said...

After comparing the two videos here is my take:

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save haters."

I heard that in the second video- but not the first.

Of course that begs the question: What is a hater, according to Furtick? Anyone that disagrees with him?

But- I will restrain all further opinions until after Frank's second post.

Wise folks do try to get all their ducks lined up before they start shooting. Even when the ducks are a very easy shot. Even when the ducks are just sitting there waiting and deserving to be shot. Must...restrain...self...

donsands said...

Matt Mc

"For we are saved by grace through faith"-Paul

"“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in Me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."-Jesus

Here are Scriptures that don't mention repentance.

Sure repentance is essential, and I'm sure the artist who created the excellent video would agree.

It's not necessary to 100% in every expression of art of the Gospel.
I was very moved by this brother's song, and I'm not a rap kind of guy.

Bishop55 said...

Here is my take:

Video 1: Steven Furtick is calling Christians haters who are unwilling to stand under the same umbrella with people who deviate from the truth of God's word. Furtick seems to think that God's word needs to submit itself to our individuality and that our individuality is expressed in our different ideas about the Bible and the gospel.

Video 2: This man gives one of the most unique gospel presentations I have ever heard. His personality bursts forth in every word, but every word heralds the gospel and brings glory to God. His individuality and personality are submitted obediently to God's word. He does not bend the message to fit who he is, rather he uses his individuality to preach the one, true gospel.

In John's epistles one constant theme is love IN truth. Our love and unity as Christians finds its basis in our strict and unwavering adherence to the truth. Furtick seems to think that love is shown by spreading our arms wide to accept every heterodox belief system out there.

Maybe I'm way off, but that is what I saw as the big difference between the two videos.

Frank Turk said...

Bishop -

For an android, you have keen insight into human nature.

Bishop55 said...

Frank, I hope that's a good thing. I've been reading Pyro for about 5 years and that's my first comment. Hopefully it wasn't a dud.

Is that the direction you're heading in for the second part?

Frank Turk said...

More keen insights into human nature.

Stay auto-tuned.

NotReturnedVoid said...

Come on, how could we hate Furtick? In their DVD given to me along with one CCM music CD, with no clear gospel message showing, “This Is How We Changed The World – The Documentary” at Chapter 9 at 45.24min – a number of people are heard, “it was like Pentecost…” - referencing all the people coming to Christ and being baptized then someone states – “…it was just crazy, we start talking about sex and attendance sky rockets to 1800… it was nuts… was our vision from God coming to life… what are you guys doing…” Then continuing, bragging on Pastor Furtick speaking at those Christian conferences they used to attend. Heard “Catalyst”, 12000 clapping, and the “C3” Conference." So they are clearly quite proud of their leader! Its just a little sex talk with idol worship... what's there to hate?
"Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate."

- part of my article of firsthand account from Elevation at Matthews. Guess I am a hater too...

Aaron said...

I thought I was watching a clip of one of those WWE coaches in the locker room before the wrestling match.... my mistake. Although, Furtick would look awesome in such a role. Not... that i'm a... wrestling fan.

gamer645 said...

To all who are talking trash on Pastor Steven - how many people have YOU lead to Christ?

You're the hater he's talking about...

donsands said...

"You're the hater he's talking about..."-645

I hope so. Though I don't hate him. he is judging me, and that is a sin.
He is arrogant to speak the way he is.

There are self-righteous Christians, who think they are saved by grace plus their won works, and Steven may just be one of these types. he seems to boast in that he is doing great things, and yet the fruit will be evident on the Day our Lord shows us all the hidden things of our hearts. Every thing will be exposed.

So, it's better to have the whole Word of our Lord in our hearts, don't you think, so we can be exposed of our pride now, and so repent, and so bear fruit of the Spirit now?
The fruit of the Spirit is humility and love and peace, and righteousness, and loving God's truth. His whole truth, which is 66 books in the Holy Scriptures. It takes time to hear the Word of God. We need to hear "every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God". And so eat each Word, and live by these words, not Steven's words. The truth will set us free, and the Spirit will fill us, and living waters of His truth and the Gospel will flow in love my friend.

Steven is very immature, and needs to cool his jets I'm afraid. He may even need to find God's grace and truth, not sure about that.
There are many false teachers in our day. Satan is working overtime, and we need to be as shrewd as serpents and harmless as doves as we serve and obey Christ in this dark world.

Wow, I wrote too much. Sorry Cent. I guess it's the three cups of coffee at the grandsons soccer game.

Coram Deo said...

One looks like a possum and speaks like a dragon, and one looks like a Rastafarian and speaks like a lamb.

Of course unlike us the Lord doesn't look at outward appearances, but the heart (1 Sam. 16:7), and Jesus declares you will them (false prophets) by their fruit (Matt. 7:15-20), which includes the fruit of their lips.

The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. Matt. 12:35

In Christ,
CD

Frank Turk said...

gamer:

Yer Awesome.

How does your criticism of all of "us" turn out to be valid if Steven Furtick's criticism of "us" turns out to be valid?

that is: how is it that you can make the same kind of complaint Furtick here says it in some way wrong and have that complaint get any serious consideration?

Unknown said...

I heard the word "toddler" in the first video, but all I kept thinking was "juvenile". I don't hate juveniles. After all, I spent better than a dozen years in youth ministry. And they sure could come up with some doozies when it came to understanding sound doctrine.

What would Mr. Furtick have said after hearing the comments recorded in Matthew 23:13-39?

Tim

cmt122 said...

I have no clue who video 1 is. It appears to me that his message is directed to someone or some group of people who possibly challenged his beliefs. It seems that he is all about "change" and it came off like he thinks he is going to lead the culture into some uncharted territory. Of course the fact that it's on this site all but guarantees I'm pretty close in my assumption.
Video 2 I also have no clue who he is. I can tell you for certain that the intent of vid 2 was to give people the gospel! I particularly enjoyed the line about spraying perfume on a corpse. Vid 2 touched me and showed that yes cultures change but the gospel doesn't. Could you imagine Paul rapping to the Romans!

cmt122 said...

I have no clue who video 1 is. It appears to me that his message is directed to someone or some group of people who possibly challenged his beliefs. It seems that he is all about "change" and it came off like he thinks he is going to lead the culture into some uncharted territory. Of course the fact that it's on this site all but guarantees I'm pretty close in my assumption.
Video 2 I also have no clue who he is. I can tell you for certain that the intent of vid 2 was to give people the gospel! I particularly enjoyed the line about spraying perfume on a corpse. Vid 2 touched me and showed that yes cultures change but the gospel doesn't. Could you imagine Paul rapping to the Romans!

bobbychandler said...

Wow! Furtick's full of love and grace isn't he?

It's interesting that his words and tone spew anger and hatred toward the very people he calls haters.

bobbychandler said...
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